Nikon D70 vs. Sony R1

[trex1]

I am torn between getting either the Nikon D70 or the Sony R1.

 

The Sony R1 pluses are:

 

1. Silent operation

 

2. Huge chip (10mp vs. 6mp)

 

3. Waist level shooting, variable angle always on LCD

 

4. Superb lens

 

Negs are:

 

1. Very slow (RAW takes 9 seconds to process)

 

2. No optical finder

 

3. A bit heavy

 

The Nikon is basically great. I would get it for around $700 used,

but like new with a 18-70mm lens.

 

I am tempted by the R1 because of the discrete operation that it

allows, which is much more in line with my way of shooting than

eyeball to the finder which is necessistated by the Nikon.

 

The R1 is around $850 new.

 

Any comments?

[marbing]

Everyone has different things they find important or positive.

 

Personally, since I never use RAW, the write times are unimportant..it are other timings that are important. I also find the EVF to be a positive since you can, for example, see exactly what a B&W shot is going to look like and instantly see the effects of spot metering right through the viewfinder. Also, I find that NOT having extra lenses to buy makes the package cheaper since there is less temptation to buy 100 lenses in 1mm increments. Also, compared to a dSLR with a large lens...the weight isn't an issue either.

 

I'm not saying your rankings are wrong but the negatives can be seen in another way that make them positives.

[steve_chan5]

The R1 looks like a really amazing package. The question that seems (to me) important is whether or not you want to use other lenses in the future. As nice as the R1 is, you will never get something like the 70-200 2.8 VR lens for it, or even something like the Sigma 30/1.4, or a 10.5mm 2.8.

[mark_man]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the R1 uses the same sensor as the Nikon D200. Dunno if that is good or bad given the banding issue with a few early D200s. Does anyone know if the R1 has the same banding problem? It probably wouldn't hurt to wait till all the bugs have been ironed out anyway (as with any new product).

[frank_skomial]

"I seem to recall reading somewhere that the R1 uses the same sensor as the Nikon D200." -- I did read the same, well before the D200 was released, and that proved wrong.

 

Nikon D200 uses CCD technology, while Sony R1 uses CMOS technology.

 

Based on that fact the sensor cannot be the same!

[godfrey]

I already own a complete DSLR system. I just took the plunge, as it were, and ordered an

R1 to complement it. All your stated plusses added into that purchase decision. Regards

your minuses, the lack of optical finder is neither here nor there to me, and the weight/

bulk is about the same as my typical "carry everywhere" DSLR and lens setup.

 

The responsiveness and slow writes with RAW format are my biggest concern with this

camera. I spent a few hours visiting demo units at local stores and working with it. The

two-shot buffer saves it for me: I'm not prone to capturing fast sequences very often, two

shots in a row with minimal delay seems "good enough" for its other plusses. Time and

experience using it will tell.

 

What really got me when I handled it for an hour or so was the ease with which I could

frame both horizontal and vertical compositions at waist level, and also the ease with

which I could hold the camera very steadily that way. This is what I've missed the most

from selling my Rolleiflex TLRs and Hasselblad SLR, neither of which are what I'd call "fast"

cameras in use. The combination of that great lens and that easy waist level operation will

open new possibilities that an eye-level SLR cannot. I also see it as a major boon for low-

angle tripod operation.

 

BTW, I have heard the R1's 21.5x14.4mm CMOS sensor is a smaller version of the

23.7x15.7mm CMOS sensor used in the Nikon D2x, with a slightly different feature set

designed to minimize its power consumption for live capture to support the EVF/LCD

system. The numbers add up to very similar pixel density and it is similar technology at

least. It's

not the same as the D200's 23.6x15.8mm CCD sensor.

 

That said, I'm very interested now to see how the camera works in practical terms. It gave

me the same good gut-feeling in my hands that the Sony F707/717 did, which

unfortunately seemed to be lost with the F828.

 

Godfrey

[Brad_]

Godfrey, I'll be very interested to see how you like it. What was nice about the 707/717 (and

I guess 828), was that the whole body swiveled along with the shutter release. With those

models, holding the camera at waist level, or even a foot above the ground put your wrist in a

much more natural position with your index finger on the release.

 

Still looks like a nice cam - though if it had laser-assist af and IR capability I'd be using it by

now...

[godfrey]

<i>.."I'll be very interested to see how you like it. </i><br><br>

Thanks Brad. I'll let y'all know once it gets here and I spend some time in the field with it.

<br><br>

<i>.."What was nice about the 707/717 (and I guess 828), was that the whole body

swiveled along with the shutter release. With those models, holding the camera at waist

level, or even a foot above the ground put your wrist in a much more natural position with

your index finger on the release..."</i>

<br><br>

I agree ... the F707/717 were great that way, although it didn't do much for vertical

compositions. The F828 seemed to lose something: I think the lens unit and body units

simply became too large to swivel like that and it lost the sweet dynamics in use of the

smaller F7x7 cameras. The R1's simpler body layout and top-mounted, articulated LCD

feel better than using the

F828 did, and provide low-angle vertical framing as well as horizontal.

<br><br>

Regards the laser focus assist and IR ... well, we've talked about them before. The laser

focus assist I do wish they'd kept in the R1, but for my intended uses I didn't find the R1's

AF to be any problem even in the relatively poor illumination at the store.

<br><br>

I consider this camera, for me, to be an adjunct to my DSLR kit: it has different features

serving different things. There's a lot of overlap, but that will sort out fast enough I'm

sure. I'm looking forward to learning how to exploit what the R1 can do. Who knows? it

might turn out that if I could only have one camera, the R1 might do everything that I

need... ! But I doubt that. ;-)

<br><br>

Godfrey

[cd_k]

Godfrey,

 

I look forward to your input on the Sony R1, as I have always enjoyed your responses. While I

still use film cameras (including your Hasselblad 903), I am looking for a digital travel canera.

So far, the Sony R1 and Panosonic LX1 interested me the most. Thanks.

[kok_fook_cheang]

I just found out the Sony R1 10M Fine Jpeg image is only 75dpi, but it's not enough detail for Epson 2100 pringting in A3 size.

[godfrey]

<i>

> I just found out the Sony R1 10M Fine Jpeg image is only 75dpi,<br>

> but it's not enough detail for Epson 2100 pringting in A3 size.<br>

</i><br>

You suffer from misunderstanding. <br>

<br>

Image density settings in a digital image are irrelevant until it is time to print. Pixels are all

that matter. <br>

<br>

The Sony R1 produces images with 3888x2592 pixels, full frame. That means that if you

want to print an image full-bleed to a A3-sized piece of paper (11.7x16.75 inches), you

will set the print resolution without scaling or resampling to 222ppi. A more usual print to

a 10x15" image area on an A3-size piece of paper is 260ppi output. <br>

<br>

Godfrey

<br><br>

BTW: I've posted some first work with the R1 to another Photo.net thread. See the thread:

<br>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00FJTA&tag="

target=new><b>Sony DSC-R1: a new camera arrives</b></a>. I've printed all of those

images to 10x15 inch on A3 paper, and the results are stunning.

[roberto_watson_garc_a]

I own a R1 since a month ago. I bougth it to have a digital option, I didnt want to ge involved in a system that would demand new lenses and stuff to have working system. R1`s given me the freadom to pick this body and do almost everything my clients need (fast quality digital images). Now I can forgot about bringing the Hasselblad system, and figth labs to do what I want. Now I do everything in home, and I think that`s what`s digital is about. I still haven`t take a step into photoshop, but it will be a need soon.

Things that I don`t like about this R1 are shutter time lag and digital finder. I know that it is very fast, but still it is very diferent than working with a Leica M. Arquitecture, product shots, portraits, landscapes are my main interest with this camera, and I`m very happy with it, I would buy it again, I`m actualy planing in buying an extra camera.