Canon 20D File numbering unusually high for new camera

[phillip_damiano1]

Hi, I purchased a Canon 20D a few days ago. When I took the camera

back home & placed in my CF Card The first image number showed image

number 4822. The card I used for the first time is a card I had for 2

years it came with my Powershot Pro1 when I purchased it a couple of

years ago. This card is 64MB. I have only used this card 2 or 3 times.

 

I was surprised to see the image number so High. I formated the card &

still the image numbers are high, I than tried my other 2 CF cards I

have & both showed the same high numbers.

 

I contacted the store where I purchased & they told me that the camera

is new straight out of the box.

 

I have reason to believe that this is not true. as I have found that

the camera has evidence of being used before. None of the settings on

the camera where set to standard. The LCD Panel was set to show all

images continuosly, I know this should of been on 2 seconds. also the

Exposure compensation was set to -2. And the Adobe RGB was set.

 

This particular Canon 20D is a replacement after the first one I

purchased also showed evidence of being a used camera. it came up with

image number 3052 when I took my first image with it, & the focusing

was way out & also Error 99 kept coming up on it. So I sent this body

back for a replacement. Replaced with the body in question above.

 

I phoned Canon Australia about this. & asked if there is any reason

why a new camera body should have indicated such a high shutter

number. Canon informed me that possibly a Card with a high reading

might of been used in the camera before hand. Which causes the numbers

to be so high, even though the card would of been formated, it stills

comes up with the total number of images that the particular CF card

have taken.

 

I was confused about this. As far I understood once you format a card

or even if it was not formated it should have no bearing on the image

number indicated on the camera. I thought the camera keeps a running

total on how many images have been taken if you set the Menu to

Continuosly for the file numbering, no matter which CF card you use.

 

I have recently sent the camera back for a refund. But I am curious to

know if this is true what Canon tells me. I have reason to believe

that they where on the side of the store where I purchased the camera

from, because it's suppose to be one of there biggest sellers here in

Australia & they asured me that the camera is new not 2nd hand. But

than if it was new, why are all the settings not set to standard?

[ajweiss]

The file numbering assertion Canon made is true. When you place the card in the camera, the

camera updates its numbers immediately (watch the CF access light). When you format the

card in the camera, the camera sets the card numbering as part of the format process.

 

As for the other settings, I don't see any reason they should differ from the defaults if no-one

has ever used the camera.

[phillip_damiano1]

Hi Adam.

 

Thanks for replying so quick. This is my first post here. I have been browsing reading the forums here for some time now. but thought I should start posting.

 

I did not know that about the file numbering system. The card I first used would of only have taken no more that 50 or so photos.

The thing that still concerns me though is the fact that the settings are all out from Standard.

 

I decided it was probably wise to get a refund, even though this was my last chance of owning a 20D. The store can not get anymore in stock. They informed me that the 20D is now not manufactured anymore & that Canon Australia do not have anymore stock.

 

I will wait & see what new replacement camera Canon will come up with than probably purchase that or the 5D.

 

Phillip

[ajweiss]

Well then, welcome Phillip!

 

Had you ever used the card in a different camera? If so, that is where the numbering

difference may have come from. Also, if someone did use the camera once or twice with a

high-shot card it could change the counter without actually proving that the camera had

taken that many shots itself.

 

Many camera stores here in the US will open a new camera to let someone see it in the

shop, the put it back in the box. It may have only been demoed, not really "used."

 

Adam

[phillip_damiano1]

Thanks Adam.

 

Oh well, to late now I already posted the camera back for a refund.

 

It was sharp as well. Much better than the first one I had.

 

I should end up with a better camera in the next month or so. Well I hope the replacement model of the 20D will be a better camera. I like the looks of the 5D, but a little over my price range at this stage.

 

Phillip

[lightwriting by swapan]

Phillip,

 

I think you did the right thing.

 

I have bought 4 cameras in last 3 years that included 1D/1Ds/!ds MK II/Rebel XT- al new, all from B and H and none have shown a high number ! All were in default settings !

 

Also, I have been unable to understand the logic of camera showing high numbers with a previously used CF card. I bought a 1 Ds MK 11 in last swptember adn used all my old dilapidated CF cards but it did not show any unusual number. Started right from 1 and is showing about 2234 now !

 

I think you had a used camera !

 

Go for the 5D. You will love it ! Or, get a used 1Ds from B and H, if feasible for you

[_kos_lumnitzer]

Phillip,

 

Where did you buy it from? Reason being I am in Oz too (Sydney) and will, therefore, avoid these gumps when I buy my first DSLR shortly.

 

Thanks

cheers

[sean de merchant httpw]

The logic is the when you stick in a card with high numbers on it and you have the camera set to use sequence numbers that the camera uses the next number. Since the card says it should be at 4000 you end up at 4000, then 4001, then 4002, ...

 

It could be nice if the camera only used its internal counter, but that could go wrong due to age and dead batteries or a software reset. Hence if the internal battery dies, your camera resets to default every time you change the battery and the counter resets to 0001. But if it gets the value from the card you can retain sequence number continuity even if the camera is reset.

 

Sadly, a card formatted in another camera or at an earlier time can cause sequence number discontinuities (jump forward or backward). There is no one right answer, but the one Canon chose is reasonable.

 

Hence, I would suggest you take the Pro-1, take a shot, see if the number on the photo exceeds 4000 and if it does, then that was likely caused by your failure to format the card in the camera you are using it in.

 

As to the settings not being default. That could be human usage, or it could be factory error.

 

enjoy,

 

Sean

[alfred_maragh]

Hey guys, here are some facts. I do not know much about the file number recording system of the higher Canon DSLRs (5D and ID series) but I think with the others (10D, 20D, 300D and 350D), the first shot you take with the new camera will assume the next higher number whether it is on the card or the camera. So, if you use a previously used card, the first shot with the new camera will be the next sequential number on the card. If there are 4821 shots done with the card, your next one on the new camera will be 4822 and not 0001.

The converse is true when using a new card with a used camera. The first shot will have the number next in line to the last one recorded by the camera.

If both card and camera were previously used but not together only, the first shot will have the file number of next highest sequential number, whether that number is on the card or camera. That is, if the card has done more shots than the camera, the next number will follow that of the highest one on the card and vice versa.

The issue can get even more complex when the card has been previously used with various camera makes with different file numbering system. I dont know how the camera knows what number should be next in such cases.

I have just bought a new 10D (yes, a 10D from B&H) and will be getting a new card before taking the first shot to see that the file numbering is OK.

In your case, it does not matter how many pictures were taken with the card before. It may just well be that your 50th shot on the Powershot Pro1 had a file number of 4821! Also, if someone used this card in another camera just once and recored a file with number 4821, then what you are now getting is perfectly logical.

I find it a little that you could have been cheated into buying used cameras disguised as new on two occasions!

[alfred_maragh]

I should have added that formatting your card will not affect the file numbering sequence.

[chrisjb]

Hi, I found the continueing numbers an advantage, I use the numbering for photo business and after 3 bodies in 5 years have not had to alter my system. Buy a new card/s with a new body and `00` the camera in the menu and don`t use those cards in another body, no probs. As for the parameter changes, some sales person do fiddle to become familiar with what they are selling, hopefully thats all it was

 

good luck with you nex choice.

[phillip_damiano1]

Thanks all for the responses.

 

I have learnt a lot here today in regards to the file numbering system that Canon deploy on there cameras & how they work.

 

I tried the sugestion about trying the card out on my Canon Powershot Pro1. The card was formated in the 20D. I than tranfered the card to the Pro1, Took a photo & the image number jumped up from 3052 to 4870. So it appears that the high number was transfered on the card.

 

Looks like it's best to use a CF Card only on one camera, otherwise the file numbering system goes out.

 

I still not sure about the setting on the camera not being set to default, but from whats said here about the salesman playing around with the settings to learn about the features. I would not think this is the case. because it's the last 20D they have & will not be getting anymore & supposedly this camera body was to come straight from Canon.

 

I have just found out that this 20D body came from a Package that included the 18-55mm lens. The store could not get the Body only in. They had a kit form on the shelf. & was on display as an demo for over one week. Than when the store realised they could not get any Body only in. They decided to swap my faulty 20D with this body from the kit. This makes sense why the Seriel number on the camera was different to what was on the 20D packaging.

 

When it comes to purchasing a Camera I prefer to purchase a camera that has not been opened or been on the shelf.

I have seen stores here where I live, where the salesman have actually taken cameras from the store home on weekends taking photos & than put back on the shelf to sell as an brand new camera. I don't believe this should be allowed. I have seen this happen with my own eyes.

 

The first 20D I had, was a shocker. The focusing was out so bad on it. My sister was taking better photos than me with a cheap pocket camera. & I have L series lens. The 20D I just sent back was very sharp. I was very impressed with it's sharpness. But I just could not live with the state of this camera out of the box. It also had a lot of dust inside the camera. Looking through the viewfinder I could see the dust specks.

 

I do believe I made the right decision in sending the camera back.

 

I have not recieved a refund as yet. I hope I do get a refund. It would not surprise me if I get the camera back in the post.

It's not to easy getting money back down here in Australia.

 

I shall keep you's posted.

 

Phillip

[phillip_damiano1]

I should of formated the card in my Pro1 before taking the photo. Probably would not of shown the high number on the pro1 if I did.

 

I to have used other digital cameras & never came upon this issue before.

[JeffOwen]

Just a quick thought about using an old CF card. What if you delete all files and reformat the card in the pc (using a card reader)before inserting it into a new camera? As the card has no record of Canon numbering the new camera would be forced to start at the begining. You might like to try this with your 5D when you purchase it.

[sean de merchant httpw]

You should always format in camera. The computer may place the meta-data in a different place on the disk/card than the camera does. Hence, you could format it, write a new FAT (File Allocation Table), and then fail to overwrite the old FAT. Place the card in your camera, shoot shots and have it noted in the old FAT. Then when you hook up the card to the computer the computer sees no new files or perhaps a corrupted FAT.

 

I have made this mistake, and now I always format the card in the camera.

 

enjoy,

 

Sean

[julie_hoskin1]

Just bought a 2nd 20D and this information is really helpful to make sure we have unique file names. Thanks, Julie