Nikon D70s Shutter speed question!

[rafikrkamel]

Hello All:

 

I have recently purchased a nikon D70s camera with kit lens and have

an sb-800 nikon speelight. my qestion is i usually shoot in A mode to

control the aperture of the lens used, however when i use that mode i

cant get flash synch speeds of higher than 1/60s only! On the other

hand, when i shift to shutter priority i get normal high shutter

speeds of up to 1/500. So please let me know if there is anything

that can be done on the camera to use it with external speedlight in

A mode and increase the flash synch speed higher than 1/60 or not?

thanks again and have a good day!

 

Rafik Kamel

[jay_miao1]

Manual (M) or Shutter Priority (S) mode is the only solution.

[david_h._hartman]

For situations where the flash is the main or key light I use

Manual exposure and non-Balanced, iTTL flash. If I want to

include ambient light I drag the shutter manually so this is

manual ambient exposure and aperture preferred

flash if you will.<br>

<br>

When the sun or some other powerful light is the main or key

light and the flash is to fill shadows I use Aperture Priority or

Manual for the ambient exposure and Balance iTTL for the flash.<br>

<br>

Lex Jenkins does something much different and Im

experimenting and trying to figure out his technique because I

respect his opinions and advice. I wont try to explain what

he does as I might make mistakes. He may give advice here soon.<br>

<br>

I recommend evaluating the advice you get and try it all. With a

DSLR the cost is super low as long as you dont experiment

on an important opportunity or even.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[photo5]

I shoot 1/60th with flash all the time when I'm indoors. Often I'll bump it down to 1/30th to better balance the ambient with flash exposure. Only when I'm outdoors shooting with flash and want fill will I need a faster shutter speed. With the D70 I only used the built-in flash and was very impressed with the accuracy of the flash exposure. Funny thing though, when I had my F100 with SB-28 mounted, in program it would always automatically dial in 1/250th sec shutter speed. I would assume in A mode if you set the aperture to 5.6 it should do the same.

 

Dave

[lex_jenkins]

I can't comment authoritatively about the D70s because I have only a D2H.

 

However in the D2H menu there are a few options that affect the combination of ambient light and flash via shutter speed selection.

 

Usually I shoot in all auto-everything mode: Camera in program mode, matrix metering, flash on TTL/BL/FP.

 

In program mode the FP (focal plane or high shutter speed option) seldom has any effect. This setting is for when I shoot in shutter priority mode. In program mode my default flash sync speeds (depending on ISO setting) are usually 1/30-1/60 under average household lighting, 1/60-1/90 in brighter commercial lighting and, rarely, 1/250 in bright outdoor light with balanced fill flash.

 

If I want to limit sync speed to within a shutter speed *range* I use the menu option for flash shutter speed, which offers choices ranging from 1/60 sec at the fastest to 30 seconds at the longest. For example, if I set this option to 1/30 for use in program mode with TTL/BL the shutter speeds tend to hover around 1/30 sec. Sometimes they'll go faster when the amibent light is bright, but the sync speed shouldn't go any slower than the preset.

 

The D2H and SB-800 will behave the same way in aperture priority: The shutters speed will stay at the preset sync speed - let's say 1/30 sec - but can go higher in brighter ambient light. Point the camera directly at a light source (take it easy on your eyes - a tungsten or fluorescent indoor lamp is good enough). You should see the shutter speed climb to 1/250, 1/500, even higher. But you have little control over this in aperture priority mode. That's the very nature of this mode - *aperture* priority. Flash sync shutter speeds are affected the same way as when not using flash at all - it varies according to the ambient lighting. The difference is that with flash activated, the shutter speed won't go below the minimum preset sync speed. (Again, I'm assuming the D70s works pretty much the same way the D2H does.)

 

Now, try flash and shutter priority mode (still using matrix metering). The normal upper limit for the D2H is 1/250. It'll actually go higher but that's for special circumstances - very short duration, short range flash, good for freezing motion against a dark background.

 

Pick an object with obvious contrast against the backgroud. I picked halloween fake tattoo stamp with a white skull against a black background, with the small stamp set on a white desk calendar.

 

With the flash in auto-everything mode (TTL/BL/FP, no exposure compensation on either the flash or camera) and the white balance set to *flash* (not auto) start with the sync speed at 1/250; then drop to 1/125, 1/60, 1/30. From there I'd drop all the way down to 1/2 or 1 full second. It won't take many tests to see a difference.

 

If all shots are exposed correctly (they should be at least reasonably consistent from shot to shot) the only differences you'll see are these:

 

1. As you approach the slower shutter speeds you may see some "ghosting" blur due to camera motion, assuming you're handholding.

 

2. The main difference you'll see is that as the shutter speed slows down the ambient lighting will have more affect on the color of the surrounds. If there are incandescent lamps in the room, the white background will become warmer. If fluorscent, coolor or greenish.

 

Anyway, the short answer to your question - can you shoot in aperture priority mode and force a sync speed faster than 1/60? - only if there's a provision for this via the menu. Whenever I need total control over shutter speed and aperture with flash I switch to manual mode.

 

And that's about all the testing suggestions I can offer tonight because my camera battery just died.

[rafikrkamel]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to my thread here. Lex thanks for your input but for my camera here is how things work:

 

-In aperture priority the max shutter speed is 1/60 and i guess it is fixed there unless you change it through the menu.

 

-In shutter priority the shutter speed changes (and i think it changes by manual tunnning only so that i can choose the shutter speed which is flash synch in this case to be say 1/500 even inside house lighting). However in this mode i can drag the flash synch down to shutter speeds of below 1/30.

 

The only problem i have lex and i want ur expert opnion on this one:

I am going to shoot in a wedding soon, and i can use shutter priority to control the flash synch up and down as i wish but the only problem with that mode is that the aperture is always at its widest aperture (for example the 18-70 lens used at 70mm would be open at f4.5 always). so with this wide aperture i am concerned that the faces shot will not have enough depth of feild and, so that the eyes will be sharp and the rest of the head and body would be a hair blurred, know what i mean? just let me know please as i dont have enough time to trial things as the wedding of a friend is in a few days.

 

If i wont bother i also have a focusing question in that wedding occasiion as well. I usually use AFS in auto focus and i have three focusing modes (single area, dynamic area and closest subject ). i think you would have the same in your D2H camera too lex. Single area is not that good ( as i have tried it before) but i am confused whether to use closest subject or dynamic area to shoot in that wedding, so please let me know if u can about this matter.

 

Thanks again Lex and hope to hear your comment on that matter asap.

[lex_jenkins]

You definitely are going to be facing some difficult situations at the wedding.

 

If you want to ensure good depth of field and sharpness it would be best to shoot at f/8. You can't rely on the camera selecting this aperture in Program mode.

 

If you want to minimize "ghosting" caused by people moving around while you're taking pictures, you'll need to use a shutter speed faster than 1/30 second. That pretty much negates the use of "dragging the shutter". That's what I had to do to photograph a kids' nighttime football game: Adjust the flash and exposure manually.

 

So if you set the shutter speed to at least 1/60 second and the aperture to f/8, and set the ISO to between 200 and 800, you can have properly exposed subjects and foregrounds and underexposed, even featureless, backgrounds.

 

The only way to ensure you'll get detail in the backgrounds is to use shutter speeds of 1/30 or slower. Personally, I don't care for this practice. Besides the problems with ghosting, what benefit is there to including a busy background with horrible greenish lighting from the available artificial lighting? It's a nightmare in post processing trying to color correct the mess.

 

Frankly, I'd rather use a shutter speed no slower than 1/60 second, preferably 1/125, stop down at least two or three stops from maximum aperture for whichever lens I'm using, and concentrate on getting good flash exposures of the actual subjects.

 

Since the approach I'm advocating is really "old school" wedding/event photography the whole benefit of TTL flash becomes somewhat irrelevant. What you do get with TTL flash is the probability that your full flash photos will be more consistent. In the old days we used guide numbers, measured (or guesstimated) the subject-to-camera distance, set the aperture appropriately and fired away. We might even meter the flash. With bulbs there was no other way to regulate flash.

 

You can still get great results with flash using this technique, but I'd suggest taking advantage of one of the various modifiers available on the market. I've heard good reports about Gary Fong's Light Sphere, which pops onto the end of the flash. Any good diffuser would help minimize that "deer caught in the headlights" stare of subjects photographed with full flash against a dark background.

 

And the exposure techniques I'm suggesting would ensure sharper photos with greater DOF, would minimize ghosting and would add the arguable benefit of reducing background detail.

 

I understand that this seems to defeat the whole purpose of having a D70s and SB-800 with CLS flash system. But this single camera/flash system does have its limits, and with a slowish lens like the 18-70DX in a large church, you run head-on into those limits pretty hard and fast.

 

When I shot my niece's wedding I shot mostly with the D2H but backed up all of the important group shots and some aisle-walk photos with my F3HP and a spare SB-800 used in ordinary auto-thyrister mode. I set the shutter speed to the usual 1/80 sync speed and aperture to whatever was recommended by the flash for ISO 400 film at the distance ranges I was shooting. Most of those photos came out perfectly. I got a far great ratio of good photos and few throw aways, compared with my D2H/SB-800 in TTL mode. My exposures with the D2H/SB-800 were all over the place, varying wildly from shot to shot. It's the first time I'd had that problem with that camera/flash combo.

 

Of course it could be my fault. Maybe I expected too much from the CLS system in such a difficult venue. Or maybe I'm just more accustomed to using an auto-thyrister flash with a simple diffuser. With my F3HP I also had the benefit of using a 50/1.8 lens. Stopped down to only f/4 it at least equalled the 24-120 VR in DOF advantages, it's also much sharper at f/4 than the VR zoom is wide open.

 

For now, I'd suggest trying the camera in full manual mode to select the shutter speed and aperture you want and use the SB-800 as an auto-thyrister type flash. For situations where you want to freeze action, this may be the better choice.

 

For situations where you want just a bit of subtle fill flash to supplement ambient lighting, the SB-800 does this exceptionally well and easily, even at distances out to 20 feet or so outdoors.

[rafikrkamel]

Thanks again lex for providing such a detailed answer to my question. However, since i am not a professional photographer and wont have anything to do except snaps in the wedding, however i would like to make the best out of them. First i would like to tell u that unfortunately i dont have shutter speed of 1/125 except in shutter priority. So i gues i will take your advise and stick to f/8 or open half an f stop like f/7.1 and use aperture priority with flash synch of 1/60,ok? i will use the flash in regular TTL Mode, however sorry for bothering i have one question regarding this matter, the manual says that to activate I-TTL i have to used something different than matrix metering, but the manual speaks in this matter for the built in speedlight i guess. However, when i use the sb-800 i just choose TTL and does that make the camera shoot in i-TTL or what?

 

However, i dont have enough experience with bouncing or using the flash diffuser that comes with the Sb-800 flash. I have used the bounce indoors at my home and it was fine but i dont think it would work with high sealing like a church at all.

 

Second a big part of the wedding is a reception in a ballroom in a hotel with much dimmer lights the a church too so that is one thing to keep in mind too Lex, get my point? So please give me ur experience on that issue (bouncing or using the diffuser dome) bearing in mind that i will use the flash in TTL mode, i may shift to use guide number but on very few occasions i would say.

 

Do u also think i should use any exposure compensation on such lighting situation?

 

I am also confused on focusing as i have 3 modes single area, dynamic area and closest subject. However i have used single area and it has tricked me a lot so i am confused whether to use dynamic area AF-S or closest subject Af-S, please let me know.

 

I also have a warming filter 812 but i dont know if i should use it, i think it wont b useful at all in that dim light, but again please provide me with ur expert advbise on that matter.

 

Thanks a million again. Please let me know that wedding is next thursday.

[lex_jenkins]

For flash, 1/60 second sync speed should be fine for indoor use. In less than optimal lighting we just have to make compromises.

 

Forgive me if I'm restating some basics you already know but keep in mind that when using flash: the lens aperture is based on the flash output; and the shutter speed affects only the balance of ambient lighting.

 

Of course, it's a bit more complex than that. With TTL flash the flash unit itself will try to accomodate your selected lens aperture. So you're not forced to choose between only one or two predetermined f/stops.

 

And the shutter speed must be no faster than the camera's maximum flash synchronization speed. If a faster-than-sync speed is used there may be a dark strip along a vertical or horizontal edge of the frame, depending on the direction of shutter travel. Any shutter speed at or below the maximum sync speed is acceptable. If you use the fastest possible shutter speed, ambient lighting will have less influence on the overall look of the photo - flash will dominate the lighting and backgrounds will tend to be dark. Use a slower speed and background lighting will be more balanced - but if the background is illuminated by fluorescent, mercury vapor or sodium vapor lighting, this may not be a desirable thing.

 

The main problem with using shutter speeds slower than 1/60 second, even when the color temperature of the ambient lighting is pleasing, is that quick moving subjects may produce a motion blur. When combined with the partial "freezing" of motion achieved by using flash, the combination produces what is often referred to as "ghosting". (The term ghosting is also sometimes applied to a type of lens flare.)

 

Flash ghosting can sometimes produce an interesting effect and the deliberate use of ghosting has occasionally been trendy for magazine editorial photography (it seems to be out of fashion at the moment, tho'). Some of the flash photos from my niece's wedding in which ghosting occurs look really cool, such as when she's rushing away from the chapel to steal a kiss from her new husband. In other cases the ghosting was simply an irritating and unavoidable byproduct of poor ambient lighting in the church. You'll probably experience both desirable and undesirable ghosting effects when using flash to photograph the upcoming wedding. Just take lots of shots and hope for the best.

 

Whenever the ceiling is more than 10 feet high or of a dark finish bounce flash is impractical. This is where diffusers are handy. Rather than aiming the flash head upward just attach the provided snap-on diffusion dome and aim the flash head directly forward or at an angle between straight forward and straight upward. With a slight angle the diffusion dome will still provide enough forward light for short range illumination. Beyond 6-10 feet, tho', aim the flash head straight forward to minimize the risk of underexposure.

 

I wouldn't use any in-camera exposure compensation unless some really tricky backlighting exists. This is pretty unlikely in a typical wedding scenario.

 

However you may find it desirable to use some on-flash exposure compensation. When photographing people within a distance of roughly 10 feet I typically set the flash to -1.0 EV. I'll check the highlight warning screen and histogram to determine whether to adjust for more or less exposure compensation.

 

This helps avoid hot spots on people's foreheads, noses and cheeks. When the bride, bridesmaids and moms have freshly applied makeup at the beginning of the affair there's less risk of hot spots. As the wedding progresses, crying, wiping of eyes and perspiration tends to make everyone a bit shiny. By the end of the ceremony there will be a lot of red, shiny faces. So after getting all the candid photos of the new couple walking away from the dais, hugging various relatives, etc., you'll probably want to shoot a few formals back at the dais. Gently remind the women to touch up their makeup so that you can get the most flattering photos. I'd say something like "I'll give you a few moments to touch up your makeup before photographing your family/you and the couple/etc." I don't want them to run off to the ladies room and spend 20 minutes on it, just dab a little powder to take off the shine.

 

There's not much you can do about men's red, shiny faces until the editing phase comes in. You might carry a package of facial tissues to offer them to dab their foreheads if they're perspiring. (They might also sneak in a dab around the eyes if they're emotional teddybears like me. I cried at my niece's wedding. Thank goodness for autofocus. ;> )

 

I'm puzzled by the comment in your D70s manual that states your camera and flash cannot be used for iTTL flash in combination with matrix metering mode. This is how I set my D2H most of the time and it produces excellent results. It also works in averaging metering mode, but not in spotmetering mode. Perhaps an owner of the D70s and SB-800 can offer some specific help here.

 

I'd strongly advise experimenting with your camera in matrix metering mode and flash in TTL mode to determine the effects. If you have kids or friends you can borrow for a few minutes, ask one to wear a white shirt and the other a black shirt. This will give you an idea of how to compromise flash exposure. It's usually impossible to get full detail in the groom's black tuxedo and bride's white gown, so favor the bride's gown. She's usually the star of the show and showing off her gown is important. You want a compromise between good skin tones and enough detail in the gown without making for a dull, low contrast photo.

 

Hope this helps and best wishes.

[gary_spears]

If I can input a suggestion for the wedding, In response to the lighting producing green ghosting effetc. Inside most sanctuaries tungsten lighting is most prevalent and gives a warm look to the background. I like to read the ambient light and then drag the shutter to a stop and a half under the flash. This works exceptionally well for the formal groupings where the camera ismounted on a tripod. I frequently am forced to drag the shutter to 1/15 or an 1/8 sec, the flash of course freezes the subject. This produces natural looking images that make it difficult to tell a flash was even used. I am also from the old school of photography and am planning to purchase a d70s system very soon. I am wondering if the adjustable white balance could be fine tuned to ease the green ghost effect under flourescent lights? You have instant preview (like un umlimited supply of polaroids) so it seems to me that prior to the wedding some adjustments could be made.