Caveat Emptor -- Wisner 4x5 TF at KEH E+ condition

[steve_yeatts]

I would like to offer this heads up to anyone interested in this

camera at KEH Camera Brokers. I recently ordered this camera in

Excellent + condition. I asked the sales person to examine it before

I bought it. It was described as pristine, and upon arrival, it truly

was pristine cosmetically. However, there was a functional problem

with the camera. This camera uses brass pins embedded in the wood of

the back to hold the back to the camera. The pins are at each corner

of the back, and sliding clamps grasp the pins and hold the back tight

against the rear standard. The problem was that one of the pins was

loose within the wood, and adjacent to the pin, on the inside of the

back, the wood was starting to split along the grain. It appear that

excessive force was applied to the pin, thereby causing the damage.

 

I brought the issue to my salesperson's attention and told him that I

would like to keep the camera, but only if KEH would have it repaired.

KEH offered no such option. Rather than keeping a sale and making a

customer happy, they did not even acknowledge the defect. They stated

that my recourse was to return the camera. So I returned it, and KEH

credited my account (less shipping) without a hassle.

 

So why am I bringing this up now, you ask? Because I believe that KEH

is re-selling the camera without fixing the problem or at least

without disclosing it. The camera appeared again on their website

very shortly after I returned it at the same condition and at the same

price. My opinion is that if they were willing to perform the repair,

the logical thing would have been for them to repair it for me,

instead of refunding my money and then re-advertising the item.

 

So if you are interested in this camera, which is truly beautiful in

all other respects, make sure you inquire about this issue.

[joeh]

I'm not surprised at your experience, as I tried purchasing from KEH twice several years ago (35mm lenses & med format), they arrived in conditions significantly and obviously less well than described, so they were returned and I received a refund minus my shipping charges (I was out of pocket both the original charge and my return costs even though it was KEH who was, shall I say, overly optimistic in listing the condition). And,the items were listed again with the same condition as before. Not very appropriate in my opinion. However, it seems the overwhelming majority of people posting on the net about KEH are very happy with their purchases. Maybe I'm just unlucky -- the 'law of averages'. But I have never done business with them after the last experience because of MY experience.

[pico_digoliardi]

Never heard of KEH using the word "pristine".

 

Please share the specific brand and model of the camera. Such a repair is trivial. I might be interested in an otherwise "pristine" LF camera.

[BrianS1664879711]

Wow... this is surprising to hear. I've only had wonderful experiences with KEH. Everything I've ever bought from them has been quite accurately described. Much of the 'excellent' graded goods do have some signs of usage. If it were really 'pristine' I would have expected them to grade it as Mint. Maybe the loose pin is why it is Excellent+. Just a thought.

[brian_ellis16]

"Never heard of KEH using the word "pristine"

 

How could you possibly know what words every sales person at KEH has ever used in describing equipment by phone?

[bobmichaels]

My experience from about six purchases is that KEH's condition ratings are extremely conservative. I always buy what they describe as "Bargain" condition and find it to be equal to others' "excellent".

 

I recently bought a 17mm Tokina lens rated as "Bargain" and it appeared to be brand new. Even had both original Tokina lens caps and hood.

 

However, I am sure there is some law of averages that comes into play. But I'm getting ready to buy my first 4x5 and it will be from KEH.

[steve_yeatts]

Pico, the brand and model is stated in the subject of my post. 'TF' stands for 'Techincal Field'. It's the model with the geared rear tilt. The term 'pristine' was the sales person's description of the camera's condition, not the printed advertisement.

Regards.

[lee hamiel]

Steve:

 

Sorry about this experience. I also have a Wisner TF 4x5 & it looks like it would take a bit of work to lossen the pins/wood surounding them.

 

I have ordered from them with no problems in the past & hope this is an isolated incident.

 

My guess is that it may have occured during shipment - but is so it would mean it was not packaged properly. For KEH it's far easier to offer the refund as opposed to dealing with the insurance aspect as it takes forever.

 

Thankfully they were decent about this part. However - you have wasted a bit of time expecting a certain camera to be in your possesion & this is not really very fair. It's my guess that they know for them to have ordered a new back from Wisner would have taken forever & not worth the hassle & they would have lost money on the deal - best for them to come clean & refund your money.

 

With regards to the "new" listing - I suggest you call them to place a new order & see if it's the same serial number & if so has it been replaced or repaired. Might be interesting.

 

lastly - they may give you some slack on a future purchase due to the hassles thus far - ask for a discount.

 

Good Luck

[lee hamiel]

Also:

 

I see they have two in stock - maybe ask them to swap out the two backs!

[pico_digoliardi]

oh, "Wisner 4x5 TF". Right in front of my face. Sometimes I'm so obtuse!

[jim_rhoades]

A couple of months back I ordered a excellent+ Fujinon 300mm tele. I looked as hard as I could, it's brand new. I was disappointed that it did not come with caps. So I spent $10 bucks at a camera swap for the lens caps. Saved well over $300. I would buy again. Bottom line; I know that they would have taken the lens back, no hassle, if I wanted.

[BrianS1664879711]

'No Hassle' is KEH's most endearing characteristics. Unfortunately it does not do much to resolve the disappointment of wanting something new, finding that item, and then receiving it... only to have to return it and start all over again.

[chuck_pere]

If the problem is that KEH didn't describe the item properly they should also pay the return shipping costs and refund the initial shipping. That is the proper way to handle that situation and one that I've always agreed to use when selling. Shipping costs both ways can add up. And maybe they can pay you something for doing their quality control.