Whose advice do you take?

[roger_hicks1]

Thanks again -- another particularly lovely answer from Andrea. Jeremy's point about the quality of the argument, not the reputation of its presenter, is of course central, and I liked the thrust of Dan's book review. I though Peter was a little harsh -- there are other ways and places to display one's pictures, after all -- but it's still an important point, and one echoed by Brad.

 

I can however think of a number of people -- especially repairmen, but also some other technicians -- whose advice I would always accord considerable weight, even though they are not necessarily very good photographers. I won't name them, because you don't want to tell your friends they're bad photographers, after all, but often, talking to a technician can give you new insights on things you already knew or suspected.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[andreatau]

I loved your question, actually. And an even more basic one would be: Do you look for advice or support? In other words, do you really let yourself dissuade by forumers' tips, or do you think about them a couple of minutes and go back to thinking of the object of your dreams, specially if supported by at least ONE post? ... perhaps am not the only one like that? ;-)

[peter_yankin]

"Peter was a little harsh -- there are other ways and places to display one's pictures, after all -- but it's still an important point, and one echoed by Brad."

 

Sorry Rog, next time I'll try to make my sarcasm a little less subtle for you. Brad didn't echo my point, he illustrated it.

[rick_waldroup3]

I must be one of the few that actually trust a few photojournalists that I know. Especilly when it comes to DSLR's. I am kind of rough on my cameras. I do not buy cameras to collect them, they are tools for what I want to photograph. I am not so much conerned with the bells and whistles as I am the durability and reliability of the camera. A lot of photographers I know become emotionally attached to their cameras as the years go by, and perhaps I do too, to a certain extent, but once I wear out a camera or it will not function and becomes to expensive to repair, I chuck it and get another one.

[bob haight]

Roger, the only folks who "take" advice are the true novices, and then they soon learn on their own what they need or want.

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Peter,

 

Sorry. I had considered the other possibility and then assumed you were not actually trying to be rude. Next time I'll know better. And yes, it was an echo, not a reiteration; he didn't say only photo.net. There are other places: one's own web-site, books and magazine articles, etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[rj]

With the level of experience that I am at now, not the most experienced by far, nor the least, I can pretty much decide for myself what type of camera and lens combination I would need for the particular shooting I want to accomplish. I put more weight on actual users opinions on any gear than non-user spec sheet spouter.

 

When I was new and completely inexperienced I would take all the advice I could get, be it from magazine articles, pros, non-pro shooters, forum members who are generally interested in giving good and thoughtful advice, forum members who are generally interested in giving smartassed answers that don't mean much, photo teachers, uncles, aunts, sisters, brother, friends, neighbors, the guy who fixes my tv and of course my doggies, but I never tried to purchase based on just one person's advice. Buying and selling on ebay has helped get a feel for what tool works too and has given me the opportunity to use a large number of different cameras and then to be able to resell them.

 

I have come to the realization through my shooting that I don't need and haven't needed certain features in a camera system, motor drive and ttl flash capabilities, 600mm lenses and superwides, to be some examples and now don't use those features that would be important to some to influence my decision. If anything, I would like to hear reliability issues from actual users, pro and amateurs, and repair persons who actually spend significant time with the gear more.

[greg s]

"Whose advice do you take?"

 

Someone who displays their work so I can see if they know what they are talking about. If I can't see their photography, or if their photography leaves a lot to be desired, then the opinion is discounted accordingly. -Greg-

[roger_hicks1]

I take RJ's point but the catch is that no-one shoots exactly the same thing as anyone else. I know what I want, but unless I try lots of cameras (which cuts into real shooting time) I can't know what is clearly better. Advice helps me narrow the field. I certainly agree about never buying on the strength of one person's advice.

 

Bob is dead right: you can't just take advice like a fish takes bait.

 

As for Greg, yes, but no. If I can look at someone's work and think "Great sharpness, great tonality, lousy composition" then I may have a higher opionion of their *equipment* than if I think "Great picture, shame about the sharpness, tonality, views expressed." Not that one can really judge either sharpness or tonality off a monitor; but in the latter case, I may have a higher opinion of their skill as a photographer than of their value as a recommender of equipment.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Andrea,

 

Well, we all think like that sometimes. But few of us are honest enough to admit it. As soon as we do, we can try to be more objective.

 

Thanks again,

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[thomas_sullivan]

I take forever deciding, I read handreds of people's advice. And then I read more. I read until I get totally confused, and then I stop for awhile...mull the info over in my head.......then start the whole search over most of the time totally divorced from my original thought of why I wanted it. Read hundreds of more, or the same, opinions and reviews.......and totally confuse myself again.

 

Meanwhile something like 3 months have gone by. If I still have the desire to purchase this thing after about another month, I'll do another google search to read some more, or read the same again........and probably buy it.

 

This actually amounts to me buying about 5% of what I originally thought I wanted.

 

Who's advice do I take.........mostly mine.

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Thomas,

 

I too find that if I can postpone the acquisitiveness, it usually goes away.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[james_cooke]

"It's easy to discern if a person has given much thought to any piece of advice. You know he hasn't when he's saying the same thing everyone else is with more or less the same words. It's all just lemming-like regurgitation of conventional wisdom. Good thinking is always new thinking. Or at least it comes across as fresh and new because it has been infused with that person's particular...eh...particularness."

 

Thats good advice.

[tom leoni]

I am a beginner (albeit a passionate one), so this question intrigues me.

 

It's not that hard to know who to trust for advice: anyone who lists objective reasons behind his suggestions (as opposed to spewing mere preferences) is worth listening to. Also because with the plethora of literature out there, it is not hard to verify and confirm the validity of a piece of advice. My tentative rule is read up, ask, then verify.

 

In any art (like photography) where there are certain *absolute* rules, good advice can save considerable time and experimentation. When the question, though, is merely about seeking validation for a capricious purchase (made or soon to be made), I am with those who say "wait and it'll go away."

 

Tom

[zave_shapiro]

Dear Roger:

 

I've enjoyed your work over the years, but your recent column in AP on the direction of error really impressed me; that's the kind of information I need, and a reviewer who pays attention to that gets my respect.

 

You didn't ask about fields of interest: I pay attention to John Dvorak on computers, on cars I like Motoring 200x, although the bald guy hasn't been there for a while. I avoid "sorts" of persons. I distrust a lot, so I tend to trust people who aren't swayed by trends and by fashion.

 

I clipped and saved your article on sharpness or contrast (damn, I've got to get off this couch and pull the "archives") because it isn't judgmental, but puts the tools for evaluation in my own hands. I love a well-designed tool; I own no Leica though I lurk on this forum, but I enjoy the talk of those people who USE rangefinder cameras.

 

I drove bus for many years (and taxi for many more) and I can spend fifteen minutes telling you about great industrial design in the people transport biz. There's the fishbowl Gimmy; a mid-sixties example had a turning radius way under forty feet, subsystems - from heating to suspension - that were near good-as-new for thirty years, and understeer from Hell (what they call "push" in the bus biz).

 

With reluctance I've moved to the Web from magazines, and I don't like it; I appreciate what a consistent world-view and a great editor means.

 

Whose advice do I value? The person who has a clear viewpoint, who can't be bought, whose discussion of virtues and negatives teaches me how to evaluate a doodad; that is a rare and valuable thingmee.

 

Roger, I appreciate your input here on PN. I've bought a subscription here and I buy a number of magazines monthly and that's my dollar-based contribution to the forum of educated voices.

 

Best in the New Year, Zave

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Tom,

 

I'd add something else to your excellent analysis of objective and subjective arguments: never trust anyone whose vocabulary doesn't include 'I could be wrong' or 'You may disagree' (unless it's something you really can't argue about such as 'Don't fix before developing').

 

Your point about 'hard' advice (e.g. film washing, which viewfinder covers more) versus purchases is also important, and I should have paid more attention to this in the original. For example there was recently a question in the forum about 21mm finders. As I happened to have four handy I was able to compare them -- and I couldn't help feeling that at least one other responder was speaking from gut feeling without actually comparing them side by side, even though it was a 'hard fact' question.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Zave,

 

You'll have me blushing! Thanks for the kind words.

 

You also support the point that someone doesn't have to be a great photographer (or even right) to be useful. From another field, Marxist vocabulary is invaluable for much political analysis though he was a poor prophet.

 

And a happy and prosperous New Year to you too!

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[jan_brittenson]

I prefer to do my own testing and evaluation. Generally, if the numbers, checkboxes, and reviews don't come up with a showstopper issue but otherwise might indicate a suitable fit for some need I'll find one to try out. Either in a store, an acquaintance, or I buy used. Sometimes I'll buy new with the understanding that I can return it if dissatisfied. The reason I do my own evaluation is nobody else seems to have my particular needs, care about the same things, and most reviews are concerned with purchasing value or predicting what "most people" will think -- which is pretty much useless to me. (My name isn't Most People, I don't share Mr People's needs or interests, and what's a good value is perhaps the most irrelevant point that can possibly be made.)

[blakley]

Roger, while I agree that it's not necessary for a reviewer to be a great photographer to provide useful information for a review, I think in fairness it has to be said that what a great photographer can and should contribute to a review is pictures which serve as examples of what one might aspire to when using a piece of equipment - this is especially true of lenses.

 

One of my criteria for buying books on photography is that I won't buy a book whose pictures I don't like, on the theory that I can't figure out what I would want to learn (Diane Arbus wrote in her journal that she was afraid that instead of teaching her students how to take interesting pictures, she secretly feared that she would start to take boring pictures like theirs!)

 

When I see a review which includes pictures like ones I want to take, I pay attention.

[andrew1]

Well, your to start, Roger. I've been reading your columns for years, and Frances' too,

in various publications where I have come across them. <p> I guess your question is

ultimately about how we come to trust a given source of information. Experience, is

really the only answer. For instance, your writing has never steered me wrong (even

when I bought a bad box of FX50!) and so I watch the magazines and websites I read

for you name, and a few others who over the years have demonstrated a like minded-

ness about their approach to the craft, a clear technical proficiency and/or level of

experience I can learn from and apply to what I do; and folks who write well, with a

balance of clarity and character that makes me want to keep reading. <p>I wade

through a lot of crap (I read this forum...) but it's worth it to learn where the gems

are, and if they keep turning up in the same spots, I keep coming back.

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Jan,

 

Indeed, trying things out is central, but with the decline of camera stores and the rise of mail order this often means buying-and-returning, so you have to have dealers you can trust.

 

I completely agree with your point about Most People: many of the most interesting photographers do indeed march to a different drum. I've just been doing a free module for the Photo School at www.rogerandfrances.com about large formats in which I point out that although Most People go for 4x5 or 8x10 this is often because they don't consider other options.

 

Three I suggest are 11x14 if you want really big contacts; 5x7 inch/ 13x18cm/ half plate as the perfect compromise between 4x5 and 8x10; and shooting 56x72mm Linhof '6x7cm' which when enlarged 3x is almost exactly whole-plate (6.5 x 8.5 inches) and which, with a 3x enlargement, can be very hard to tell from a 1/1 plate contact print. And all are a nicer shape than the stubby 4x5/8x10 format, though I do like the latter for portraits. It'll be going up later this month, probably 2-3 weeks.

 

Cheers, and thanks for the reply,

 

Roger

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Bob,

 

At this point, in the magazines, we start running into commercial realities. A review doesn't pay much, typically $300 to $700 depending on the number of pages, and that has to include all expenses: film, processing and other overheads, travel, and possibly $50+ for shipping the kit back.

 

On top of this, the reviewer has to understand a reasonable amount about photography in general -- which surprisingly many good photographers don't -- and be able to address questions that his/her readers are likely to want to read about: handling, quirks, shutter noise, etc. It's not enough to say "I like it and it takes good pictures," which is what a bad review by a good photographer may do.

 

This may of course be why journalists aren't universally trusted, though it's hardly true that they are just out for freebies, as an earlier post suggested. Rather, they're out to make a living, and quite honestly, most of the freebies are at best a fringe benefit. The others -- the occasional long-term loaner of a camera you actually would buy, if you could afford it, or free materials in any sensible quantities -- are very rare indeed. Most of the stuff that the manufacturers really want you to keep is stuff you certainly wouldn't lay out your own money for.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Andrew,

 

Yeah, sorry about the FX50. I got a bum bottle too, after the review. Paterson have just changed contractors for manufacture and this should make for much more reliability.

 

Otherwise, thanks for the kind words and I think your point about like-mindedness is essential. As Geoffrey Crawley said to me recently, "I can't imagine retiring and giving up photography. Can you?"

 

Cheers,

 

Roger