Lens for *very* dark portraits w/ good zoom. no flash

[jersey_b]

Hi.

im a newbie here to theis forum and just started photography this

month.

 

first off i read through the posts that are listed and searched for

my answer. but no luck. if this question has been answered, can you

please let me know where it is. and sorry.

 

secondly ive went to 3 local camera shops here in town and it seems

that when they find out that i dont know too much about cameras and

lenses, they try to take advantage of me.

 

question:

I have a D50 and an looking for a lens.

the type of shooting i would like to do is close portraits at night

(*very* dark conditions) with no flash. and with a better then

average zoom. good image quality.

 

as an example, if someone was sitting at a street corner in the

middle of the night, and you take a photo of just his face. i want

to capture only the light that the street lights and stop lights

make on the face.

 

sorry if in not too clear. i tried getting the answer from the shops

and they seemed confused and were constantly asking why i want to

take pictures at night with no flash. i dont think its matters why

but they acted like i was stupid or something. then they pointed me

out two lenses they were $2,500 and $2,700. i said "Do you have

anything cheaper?" and they said "For what you want, no.".

 

im not even sure those were the correct prices because they did take

them off the shelf. they just pointed.

 

like i said , sorry if has been asked before.

 

any help is greatly appreciated. price isnt really a issue. but

lower the better :)

[frank.schifano]

Looks like you have two choices. First, you can get one of those very expensive, constant aperture, f/2.8 zoom lnenses. The really good ones only have zoom ranges in the neighborhood of 2:1, so if you're looking for a wide zoom range, you're out of luck. The second, and IMO preferrable, option is to get something like a 50mm f/1.8 lens. These can be had for very little money by comparison and provide excellent image qualities along with a lot more light gathering ability. Coupled to a D50, the 50mm lens works out to a very good angle of view for portraiture.

[rick_beets]

85mm f1.4 AFS Nikkor, 85mm f1.8 Nikkor, 50mm f1.4 Nikkor. Check out these lenses.

[Robert_Lai]

Most zoom lenses don't let in a lot of light. The few that do gather a lot of light cost over $1000.<p>Try a lens that doesn't zoom, but lets in a lot of light. The 50mm f/1.4 AF-D comes to mind. The 50mm f/1.2 AIS would be an option if you weren't using the D50. However, as you are new at photography, I would probably just stick with the autofocus (AF) lens. The 50 1.4 is a very common lens.<p>Now, as for shops, if they treat you like dirt, then don't ever go there again. If they don't want to build up trust and rapport with you, and just want to rip you off on a one time gain, then go elsewhere. They will die the natural death that they deserve. Since you've got the internet, I suggest a reputable shop such as B&H (www.bhphotovideo.com). You can see from their site that a US model 50mm f/1.4 AFD costs about $270.<p>An alternative would be the 50mm f/1.8 AFD, which costs about $105. However, it's 2/3 of a stop slower (meaning you need a slower shutter speed), and that may impact upon your images depending on how dark the environment you're shooting in is.<p>If you're allowed to bring a tripod, then any cheap tripod is better than none.<p>Finally, what to do if you don't have a zoom? Walk closer or farther to and from your subject as necessary to get the required framing.

[Robert_Lai]

By the way, there are valid artistic and safety reasons why you may not want to use a flash in the streets in the middle of the night. Artistically, flash will totally change the look of a scene. If you're trying to catch the atmosphere created by street lighting, it will be changed by using a flash.<p>A flash will also notify everyone in sight that you've got a camera. Depending on the areas that you're shooting in, you may not want that attention.<p>Check out the street photography forum here at photo.net for some fine examples of photographs obtained without using a flash.

[vivek iyer]

"For what you want, no." Really informed folks, it appears.

 

A lot of Nikon users would like a lens that you want as well. It is simply not there- not one that is fully compatible with a camera like D50.

 

No.

[lilly_w]

Newbie or not, you command the same respect and thoughtful answers from a store as were provided above. Unless you've got a ski mask and fast car I doubt your bank acct is fit for a fast (f2.8) and expensive ($1,000+) zoom. Heed the sage advice re: the 50mm/f1.4 AF and you'll be set. Welcome aboard!

[chad_worthman1]

I'm sorry, but I'd have to agree with the camera stores.

 

With time you'll learn that the lens you're looking for doesn't quite exist. There are always compromises.

 

If you want to stand a distance away from someone, in the dark, and get a sharp, well exposed photo of someones face, with a zoom lens, you're going to have trouble no matter how much money you have to spend.

 

I'd suggest beginning with cityscapes with the Nikkor 50mm 1.8D and a decent tripod. Take your time, practise and learn before you empty your wallet buying things to try to make your photos better.

 

You could look at something with VR (AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G IF-ED), that will let you drag the shutter a bit. I have no idea how much it costs or how well it works.

 

Good luck!

[johninjapan2000]

I like night shooting with the D50, too. High ISOs are great! I use a 50mm f/1.8 dirt cheap lens. Best quality in the world, zoom with my feet. On digital it is portrait length, anyway.

 

Need more reach? Try an 85mm f/1.8.

 

This pair of lenses will provide much of the versatility of a zoom with much more speed and greater quality. Total cost: 450-500 bucks for the pair.

 

Want wider? 35mm f/2 is about 250 bucks. As good as the above lenses, much better than economical zoom. Faster than any zoom.

 

Being high quality, all can be re-sold without too much trouble. Being three lenses, you break one you still have two to play with. Total cost for all three: 700-750, still much cheaper than a high quality zoom.

 

John

[Robert_Lai]

I got the impression from reading Jersey's initial post that JB intends to be physically "close" to the subject in order to take such a tightly framed shot. I didn't get the impression that JB wants to stand off from 30 feet and try doing that with a telephoto.<p>In the case that my interpretation is correct, it would make sense for JB to purchase a relatively inexpensive 50mm lens and learn with that. I can't possibly imagine why a novice to photography should have to spend $1000+ to get some images in low light conditions.<p>For the other interpretation, there is the 200mm f/2, which costs as much as many a used car.

[johninjapan2000]

Another possibility is the 35-70mm f/2.8. Not that fast compared to fixed-focal-length lenses, but not bad and great quality, by reputation (haven't used). Has a short zoom range so is not too expensive (maybe about 650-700 dollars?). If you can live with the 2.8 speed, this might work for you.

 

It is a push-pull type zoom. Some people like that, some hate it.

 

Cheers,

 

John

[RaymondC]

What mm zoom do you require?

 

The light gathering fast lenses for zoom are gonna be too pricey, like $1500 or more or a few at $1000 or more. That is USD.

 

Zooms are 70-200/2.8 VR at $1500. $1200 I think, is 17-55/2.8 DX lens. A 35-70/2.8 is at $600-700US.

 

Non zooms will be 50mm, 85mm or 35mm or 28mm or 24mm. These are f/2.8 or some are f./1.8 or f/1.4, f/2.0.

 

Those are the lenses so take your pick. If you need them for low light why not go for a non zoom at f/1.8 or f/1.4 or f/2.0

[stephen hazelton]

Jersey, two suggestions for your- think the posts above covered a lot of it.

 

First, take whatever lens you have, go out in the evening, and see what kind of light levels you get as it gets darker. The reason I say this is, a typical cheap zoom is maybe f/4 at the wide end. A really good zoom is f/2.8. That's only one stop difference, or half the light level. A good prime lens is f/1.4- that's two stops more. A $2,000 or $3,000 Noctilux will get you to f/1.0- one more stop. But the key is: There's not that much visible difference in those light levels- that's going from dim to dimmer, not from light to dark. So the lenses you're looking at won't do THAT much better than whatever you have now. If you do experiment some, you should be able to find what f/stop you need to make the shot you want. My guess is you will not get to the point where you say "f/4 won't work at all, but f/2.8 is perfect" because there's just not that much difference. Instead, that 1- stop difference will be maybe 10 minutes or earlier later in the evening.

 

Secondly, realize that part of the effect you're after comes after-the-fact, in a darkroom or in digital manipulation. It sounds like you want lighting from just 1- direction, and you want high-contrast. But you can shoot under those conditions and get a dud of a photo without proper processing and metering. You may be thinking of film images where the film has been pushed for extra speed, which makes it real contrasty (whether you want it or not).

 

I think it would be a big mistake to buy an expensive lens if you don't really understand what it can (and can't) do for you. Get out there and shoot with your current lens. You should be able to make exactly the shot you want, only in a bit brighter light than what you want- but you should be able to get "the look". If you can't get it to work now, the bigger better lens won't help- you'll have the same problem with it, only at half the light levels.

 

One other thing, now that I think of it. You're assuming the light is a street light, say, off to the side. However, there are ways to rig up a flash off to the side. Wouldn't work for street shots of strangers, but would for shooting friends or relatives under those conditions. I rigged up an extension cord on my old Pentax (which doesn't have all the metering contacts that modern cameras have for a flash). There are slaves and stuff that will do the trick for yours.

[jersey_b]

Thanks everyone.

 

You have no idea how much I appreciate every responce. :)

 

Thanks again.

[lex_jenkins]

All you need is a fast lens, steady hands and set the camera ISO to 1600.

 

The D50 seems capable of producing surprisingly good, low noise images at high ISOs but you might want to use some noise reduction software. I like Noise Ninja because it can be used to reduce color noise (reddish and greenish splotches) without softening the overall image. The remaining noise resembles film grain.

 

The Imaging Factory also makes an excellent Photoshop compatible plug-in for noise reduction. It works on RAW files, unlike Noise Ninja.

[EricM]

Yeah, like Lex says, get fast primes, this is a 50f1.4 on a D2x @ 1600iso, handheld, 1/10 @f2.8 <br><br>

<center><img src="http://static.flickr.com/38/83291602_9131ccb17c.jpg?v=0"></center>

[vivek iyer]

Steady hands to get it this sharp (I have seen the non-Nikon forum sized photo of this to make this comment). Terrific capture of the expression as well, Eric.

[steakandale]

Of cousre if he's only out to get those punks who are egging his house at night... get night vision binocs with digital camera added in. I think the monoculars have a camera adapter too, that would be fun to play around with.

[andy a.]

I would start with a 50 f/1.8 AF. It's a lot cheaper than a 50 f/1.4, and will get you most of what you want. The fixed focal-length (not zoom) is less of a hindrance outdoors (you can usually walk forward or backward a bit to frame your shot).

 

Don't let the low cost fool you either (<$100 new); it's optically superb. Likely much better than any zoom you'll ever own.

 

If you feel like giving one of those shops business again, they will probably have used ones for sale as well since this is a very common lens.

[john schroeder]

JB. I also must recommend the 50mm f1.8. It's an incredible lens and has nice bokeh (out of focus highlights). You really can't beat the price either. You should also look at the Tamron 28-70 f2.8 or the Tokina 28-80 f2.8 lenses. Both are good performers and reasonably priced for "Pro" zooms.

[EricM]

Cheers Vivek...who says you need a rangefinder without the mirror slap :P

[iambaxter]

I agree that the 50 1.4 would be you best choice, for your price range. You could always add a 1.4 Teleconverter or even a 1.7 for a little more reach. Check to make sure the Nikon brand would work, or look at Kenko.

[digitmstr]

>>f someone was sitting at a street corner in the middle of the night, and you take a photo of just his face. i want to capture only the light that the street lights and stop lights make on the face.<<

 

Unfortunately (for your bank account) ANY zoom capable of capturing a low-light image will cost you a small fortune. There is simply NO way out of that one.

 

The above suggestions about using a prime instead are indeed solid and the only valid alternative.

 

If you want to keep the distance from your subject look for a fast telephoto in the 135-200mm range. You can find those in the used market sometimes. Otherwise, get the 50 as suggested but, be prepared to be much closer to your subject and/or do some heavy cropping.