Cheapest way to get 420ex off camera?

[scottanderson]

I'd like to get my 420ex off camera on a stand, shooting into

umbrella, along with maybe one/two other hotshoe type flashes all

being fired via optical slaves, the Wien "peanut". I have a 20d and

was wondering what the cheapest way to do this would be. I understand

that i wont be able to use ttl/e-ttl, and dont desire to. But can the

420ex be used in this type of setup via some type of adapter. Is

there something that would adapt and fit from hotshoe to pc,

disabling the ttl?

 

BTW, st-e2 is actually gonna be too much $. Im thinking cheap wire

adapter or hotshoe/pc adapter does anybody make this. Open to any/all

ideas. Thank You in advance for help.

-Scott

[PuppyDigs]

The 420EX is an auto flash, i.e., no manual controls. So even if you used a hotshoe adpater

I think you'd only be able to trigger full power bursts. It would be cheaper, easier and

more effective to

just buy a used (or new) Vivitar 285. Lots of old auto thyristor and manual Vivitars still

floating around for a song.

[jbq]

With no manual controls, the 420EX isn't appropriate for such applications.

[dave_trayers]

But if I can slightly hijack this thread... I have a 550EX which does have manual control and I'd like to use it as a slave for a hair light or backdrop light. Isn't there a device I can put on the hotshoe of the flash so it will trigger when the other strobes fire? Recommendations? Sources?

[steve_dunn2]

<p>I haven't tried this, but from having seen previous discussions along these lines, at least some of Canon's EX flashes apparently tend to lock up if you try to use them as dumb flashes with some kind of slave device. Before going down this route, you might want to dig up some of those discussions and find out if your equipment is likely to suffer the same problem.</p>

[jimstrutz]

There are ways to make this work, but I don't think them worth doing.

 

Canon's modular TTL wireset might work. It's incompatible with E-TTL, and the 20D will not do TTL, so it should fire as a full power manual flash. Be advised that this is not an inexpensive solution.

 

For less money you can buy a Ikelite Lite-Link TTL optical slave, and then go to eosdoc.com to find the way to disable TTL & force full power manual. But it will be only full power, and without control. Some other optical slave *might* work, but they usually lock the flash up after one shot.

 

You'd be better off, spending less money, just buying a cheap used flash with manual power control. Then the Wein Peanut slave would work. Look for something like a Sunpak 522 or 383, or Vivitar 285. There are a lot of others like these.

[mark u]

You could always try daisy-chaining a couple of off shoe cords (OCSC2) together - that way you maintain control over the 420EX from the camera. Your peanuts would need to be digital ones that ignore the pre-flash. However, I think the cost of the digital peanuts and the extra cord outweighs the cost of a manually controllable flash (it sounds as though you already have a couple of those anyway) and regular PC cord.

[taner]

Sure there is a way - not the most convenient however;

 

this for using your on-board flash to trigger the slaves - I am successfully using it to trigger my 430EX:

 

http://www.eosdoc.com/manuals/?q=blankFEL

 

and, although I have not tried this one, since my 430EX does have a manual mode, it should work on the 420EX just like older the 380EX:

 

http://www.eosdoc.com/manuals/?q=EX-M-TTL

 

Good luck.

[digitmstr]

>>Isn't there a device I can put on the hotshoe of the flash so it will trigger when the other strobes fire? Recommendations? Sources?<<

 

Yes, of course there is. You can use ANY optical, radio or infra-red systems such as WEIN, Pocket Wizards, Vivitar, etc... The cheapest being a generic optical slave, of course.

 

However, because the 550s do NOT have a pc connection you will need a hot-shoe-to-PC device. The only ONE I have found to work reliably with the Canon 550EXs (or 420EXs) is the the custom cord made by PARAMOUNT cords. They are made to have a hot shoe on one end (which fits the 550s perfectly - all others I have tried from other vendors did not!) and on the other end you can have whatever connector you seek (PC male/female/min-jack, etc...).

 

I rec. PARAMOUNT cords above verything else (btw, I am NOT associated with them in any way shape or form other than being a customer).

[digitmstr]

>>Canon's EX flashes apparently tend to lock up if you try to use them as dumb flashes with some kind of slave device<<

 

I have been using mine that way for years, not one lockup. I have never heard of it. If the HOT SHOE is *well made* there should be zero problems.

[digitmstr]

And yes, if you REALLY want to use the 420 as a MANUAL flash (which is not) you can use a set of square ND filters to control exposure by securing them with an elastic band. I have been forced to do just that in a shoot I did a few years ago. I had to use THREE Cokin ND filters I happened to have in my bag. It saved the day...the embarassing part was having to take the elastic band from the bride's undergament but, I don't want to talk abot that...

 

Of course, that was a joke...just to make it clear...it's a joke (about the bride's undergament, not the flash story)

[taner]

Here is how I trigger my 430EX:

 

I mount the 430EX on a Manfrotto stand/umbrella adatper using a Kaiser brand shoe mount. This mount attaches on top of any stand or tripod the same way your camera body does (same standard tread size), and it has a short PC type cord extension sticking out - that is where you attach your WEIN peanut slave (I bought one of these slaves yesterday, and it DOES NOT lock my 430EX up after firing once! Some other slaves I tried DID. This seems to be consistent with others reports about an inconsistent pattern, so do not be surprised if your peanut locks your 420EX up after firing once, and if you have to do a manual power on and off after each firing).

 

I do not remember if the 420EX has the 1 minute (or is it two?) auto-power-off feature or not (I rented and used the 420EX in multiple wireless set-ups, but I did not own one), but this custom function on the 430EX is really handy. So what I do is I cover the on-board flash completely with my hand (as in getting it in your palm) and hit the FEL button on my XT/350D (the * button). Then I have 16 seconds to take the shot - in those 16 seconds, when you press the shutter and take the shot, no pre-flash will be fired (since you already did that when you pressed the FEL button), and your camera body will sync with your slaved 420EX firing into the umbrella (obviously at sync-speeds that your camera body allows).

 

The above method presents two challenges however:

 

1- Since you completely blocked your on-board flash when you pressed the FEL button, when you press the shutter and take the shot, your on-board flash will fire at full power (although without any pre-flash), and you were trying to avoid the on-board flash look and get softer light in the first place. That is when FEC comes handy. I dial in -2 stops of flash exposure compensation. Now, despite the -2 FEC, at full power, your on-board flash might still make a significant difference, so you have to be a little creative and block its power furher - I use a piece of bubble-wrap. If one layer is still not enough, fold the sheet of bubble-wrap and use two layers. That really does the job of cutting the light level from the on-board flash to a level that it is still powerful enough to trigger your Peanut slave, but not enough to make a difference in the overall light level.

 

At the website I linked above, as well as other sites on the web, there are suggestions to use a strip of developed, unfogged E-6 film (exactly the same size of your on-bard flash screen) which will act as an infrared filter, triggering your slaves and not making any impact in the overall light level in the scene. Although I have not tried this for myself, I prefer the simplicity of the bubble wrap method. I am pretty sure that if I taped a strip of E-6 film on my on-board flash screen, I would forget it there, and it would block on-board flash when I am using it for day-time fill next time... Plus tape marks on/around the on-board flash, etc...

 

2- Since your on-board flash will fire at full power each-time you trigger your slave(s) with it, it will be a considerable drain on your camera's battery. Solution? Buy a really cheap manual flash and use that instead (Vivitar 285, 283, Sunpak, etc...). I am about to do this my self, not because of the bubble-wrap inconvenience, but this second battery-drain proplem associated with using your on-board flash as trigger.

 

Using the 430EX at full power, firing into a 45 inch Photoflex umbrella (white material inside and from the 'right' distance for this kind of thing) to shoot an upper-body type portrait at ISO 100, I get the f/6.3-8 range. If you bring the umbrella really close, even f/11 is O.K.

 

During all of this, a bare 100W tungsten spot light in the 'hairlight' position is always on - more than enough light to do critical manual focusing (not a lot of fun on the XT/350D...). At the shutter speed of 1/160sec, it has a very very small impact on the white-balance, which I deal with later during my raw-conversion. In terms of light, it has close to zero impact at f/8, 1/160sec...

 

Good Luck.<div></div>

[taner]

<div></div>

[taner]

Oh and this is after I cloned the 430EX out in PS... You cannot do that with the entire umbrella though. At least I cannot.

[taner]

If you put your 420EX on a hot-shoe with a pc socket and connect that to your 20D would that not be the cheapest? Although I must say, I hate 'any cable solution'. Of course, you still need to take care of the flash pins using the mehod described in one of the links I provided above.

[digitmstr]

>>that is where you attach your WEIN peanut slave (I bought one of these slaves yesterday, and it DOES NOT lock my 430EX up after firing once! Some other slaves I tried DID. This seems to be consistent with others reports about an inconsistent pattern, so do not be surprised if your peanut locks<<

 

I think the "reports" came from slaves with *built-in* hotshoe. Your doesn't, right?

[taner]

You are right Giampi; Wein peanut that I bought and (successfully) used is not a shoe-mount model - it is a tiny glass half sphere with a metal extension that plugs into a pc jack (not the most sensitive slave I have tried though). I use that with the Kaiser brand shoe-mount I mentioned above.

[scottanderson]

Hey Folks, Im thoroughly discouraged and just sold my 20d and 420ex on e-bay for a few bucks. My goodness. Ok, I spent some time this weekend researching and found a couple items on B&H's site. If i had only known how much there would be to this... The 420ex will not be used in this manner needless to say. I fully understand those of you who said: "there are ways to do it but other ways are easier" and it turns out not much cheaper than going the st-e2 route in some cases. I have a couple of Sunpaks- one a manual. The other shoots either full power or 1/16th manually, So ill go that route. Use One as a main the other as a fill. I didnt know how complicated the 420ex would be in this situation otherwise I would have never popped the question. 3rd light would have been nice but not necessary. So for now im gonna use this, www.bhphotovideo.com/sitem/sku=89979&is=REG , handy little device to fire from the pc connection on-camera and the slave for the other. Thanks for the help and heads up guys:)

[scottanderson]

Ooops, not really ditching the camera gear.. forget to clarify. Sarcasm loses itself in message boards sometimes:) Good Night Folks:)

[scottanderson]

BTW Taner, wanted to say thank you (he took so much time to give me a way to make this happen). forgot to do that. For your time with the suggestions. It makes me feel good when I know there are excellent photographers such as yourselves that have had to try to do this kind of 'crafty ingenuity' to get by in a pinch.

 

Good Night All

[maxasst]

If you fire off your weaker manual flash set on the camera's hot shoe with the head bouncing off the ceiling, then use a simple optical ($12.00 or so) to trigger for your stronger manual flash, that would be the cheapest way to get off camera flash. Add an Ikelite ($80.00 or so) Light-link to trigger the Canon flash and you'll have your third light source for a wireless setup. Everything will be in Manual, but since you have a digital camera to view the light ratios, it will take a little manipulation of the light setups and changing aperture to get things to your liking. My complaint about using everything firing off full blast is that you need to wait for the flashes to recharge and they might not recharge at the same rate so it will throw off the exposure and you might miss a moment, especially if taking pics of children.