Leica M or SLR

[claudiu_falub]

Hello!

I would like to purchase a rangefinder. I am currently working with a Minolta Dynax 9 and the following lenses: 17/3.5, 20-35/2.8, 28-70/2.8, 50/1.4 and 80-200/2.8 (you're welcome to see my work at http://www.iri.tudelft.nl/~cfalub ). I started with nature photography, travel and recently became very interested in people (portraits, environmental portraits). I found my SLR too big and heavy for this type of photography (too many lenses, filters, tripod, etc.). I know the good work doesn't (always) depend on the camera. Last week I was in a shop and compared the following cameras: Leica M6, Konica Hexar RF, Contax G1 and G2, Konica Hexar (with silent mode). My favorite is M6 (or M6-ttl) since it is very silent, robust, completely manual. I've never worked with a Leica-M before, but everything was straightforward. While Contax-G or Konica Hexar are nice cameras and cheaper (especially the Hexar), I couldn't work with them without the manual; besides Contax G (i 1nd 2) are noisy. There is also the new Hexar RF, but it is dependent on batteries and it has the motor drive (for me these are disadvantages). So I thought the M6-ttl with 30/2 Summicron Asph. and 90/2.8 Elmarit would fit well for me (I would add later a wide/ultra-wide from Cosina/Voigtlander). However, I cannot afford to keep both cameras, the Dynax 9 and the M6, so the first one must go. I am not yet sure if I am doing a mistake or not (giving up to so many focals ...). Ideally it would be of course to keep the SLR and purchase the Leica M6 ... A choice would be to sell the 17, 20-35, 28-70, and keep the SLR with the 80-200/2.8 and buy the M6ttl and 35/2 Asph. Or a used M6, but I rather buy new.

I would appreciate if you could give me some advice. Thanks.

[marker]

You have some really nice pictures on your site - Why make a change

at all?

 

<p>

 

If I was as skilled as you are, and I wanted some other eq. I would

consider Bronica RF - That i MF, which really would give you some

change.

[alan_ball1]

Claudiu,

 

<p>

 

Absolutely GORGEOUS images on your site. It would be a pity to leave

your proven travel/landscape/nature capabilities behind, and such

images do often require tripod anyway, as well as different focal

length options for optimal perspective effects.

 

<p>

 

I agree with Thomas that you might squeeze even more quality for that

style of photography out of a larger format setup (which is something

you perhaps do not want to hear). But on the web, those Dynax pics

are simply fabulous. How large to you print them?

 

<p>

 

You now want to have the option of also pursuing images of people,

and feel that the SLR setup is too cumbersome for such an activity.

You might be right, but not necessarily.

 

<p>

 

Judging by your budgetary constraints, I would advise you to keep

your options open, and go for the very competitive Konica Hexar. This

way you will not have to get rid of any items of your Dynax system. I

would maybe even suggest you add to the Dynax a 2nd hand 100mm

f2, 'cause that zoom is really heavy.

 

<p>

 

Do short distance, indoors, street, with the Hexar, do more formal

portraits or longer distance pics with the Dynax+100. That double

setup will of course be larger and heavier than the 90mm Elmarit but

will be faster to boot than changing lenses. You will learn to walk

around with the Hexar and nothing else, anyway. Such an option will

prevent ruining your financial prospects for the coming 5

years.... . ;-)

 

<p>

 

And, most importantly, such a "compromise" will allow you to go back

to your current subjects whenever you feel like it, with a fully

functional well proven, rugged and efficient setup...

 

<p>

 

Alan

[steven_alexander1]

Why change? Your images are outstanding. I would use the

money, saved by not changing equipment, to purchase film,

travel or other needed things.

The change from SLR to RF will not add anything to your vision

and as to quality if the images you now produce are as good as

the images appear to be on line then there is no need to

exchange equipment.

 

<p>

 

My 2 cents, thanks for showing your images.

 

<p>

 

Steven

[kaj_froling]

Claudio

 

<p>

 

Very nice pictures!

 

<p>

 

I will second - keep your equpment at for a while!

 

<p>

 

Take the Hexar Classic to try out if a rangefinder is you, even if

this have a motor, it also have full manual possibility (with spot

meter) and the autofcus is very accurate.

 

<p>

 

 

Kaj

[john_collier5]

I think it would be a mistake to sell off your parts of your proven

present system for something you have little experience with.

Why not buy used? Beat up cameras and lenses are half the

price of new ones and, if CLAed, work just as well. I purchased a

M2 and 50/2 in user condition for a very good price. Gradually I

bought other lenses and bodies as I felt the need and had the

financial wherewithal. M rangefinders are not everyone's cup of

tea nor particularly inexpensive so go slowly. You can always sell

used equipment for what you paid for it so it is almost a free way

to try things out.

 

<p>

 

Cheers,

[steve_lehuray1]

Claudiu,

 

<p>

 

It is hard for anyone to advise you on what camera/system you should

use but from your post it seems like you want to try something

different--'environmental portraits'(Street Photography?) for which

there is nothing better than a Leica M. My preference is a M2/M3

combination with a hand meter, IMHO the in camera meter of the M6 makes

the camera way to slow. Forget about a 90mm for the time being and

concentrate on a 35mm and maybe a 50. Take a look at my website, all

M2/M3 with 28/35/50 lenses: http://www.streetphoto.net/frames.html

Good luck and keep it simple.

[Robin Smith]

I tend to agree with the others - you don't really need an M at all.

However, who can deny they are very nice to have and sometimes they

are perfect companions for when you don't want to go out with the

whole kit and want something much simpler. If you really think you

must sell something to afford the M, I would sell the 20-35 and the 17

and maybe the 50 1.4 and get an M6 w 35/2 or 50/2. This would give you

a very nice relatively light street camera and it would be

complementary to your Dynax. Of course you are stuck is you want wider

than 28mm - but personally I wouldn't find this a problem.

[david_yeo]

Claudiu, I will go agianst the current of opinons and advise you to

go for the Leica. Cameras and lenses are only equipment after all

and given your experience you will master the M6 in no time at all.

Change can be good and also exciting. And you hit the nail on the

head - the M6 will allow you to travel a lot lighter and take

fabulous photos. In fact I have often far better portraits on my

travel with my Leica than my Nikon. And you know what, Leica's got

that something special in its lens quality that has to be

experienced.

PS Love that tent shot!

[claudiu_falub]

Thanks a lot for your answers and useful remarks. I was thinking to

move to the MF (the camera I most like is Mamiya 7II), but as I said

in my post I became more interested in people/street/low light

photography. In fact to say it straightforward: I had a revelation

when I first saw Sebastiao Salgado's, David Alan Harvey or HCB's work.

I thought I am wasting the time with these landscapes, travel shots.

Although I was looking for the dynamic landscape, it seemed to me that

my photography is too static, since I used most of the time a tripod

(Velvia, Provia, or T-Max 100). You say that I should not give up the

nature photography, while in my mind I have now only: Salgado, Harvey,

HCB, ... Leica ;o)

 

<p>

 

The Hexar classic with the silent mode would be a very cheap solution

to my problem (less than 1/2 the price of a Summicron 35/2 Asph). But

the viewfinder, all those small buttons were confusing. In fact I was

not sure where the AF was locked or not, etc.

Anyway, thanks again.

[marker]

After the look at your site - The plesure was all ours. I really

would like to see, what you could get out of a M7II in the streets

and in nature on tripod.

[jay_.]

On the cover of this month's POP Photo was a picture of the latest

Minolta AF SLR which they touted as the smallest and lightest ever.

I don't know what the non-US name for it is. Perhaps such a small,

light body with 1-2 of your lenses would fit the bill, plus it'd be a

backup when you use the whole system. Too bad the AF lenses and MD

lenses arne't interchangeable or you could get a mechanical body.

[tse_sung_wu7]

<i>The Hexar classic with the silent mode would be a very cheap

solution to my problem (less than 1/2 the price of a Summicron 35/2

Asph). But the viewfinder, all those small buttons were confusing. In

fact I was not sure where the AF was locked or not, etc.</i>

<p>

I can highly recommend this camera, if you're interested in a step

toward RF-like, unobtrusive shooting at 35mm. Much has been written

about it in <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/hexar">photo.net</a>.

The short answer to your question about the AF in the Hexar is that the

parallax compensation is shown in the viewfinder as the lens focuses,

and so you can see that the focus has been captured. After many years

of using a manual focus/exposure 35mm SLR, I found this quite easy to

use. It took time to get use to the viewfinder, which is the case with

most RFs.

<p>

Furthermore, there are yet less expensive ways to do try an RF, using

1970s era fixed focal length rangefinders, which you can read about in

<a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/com35s.htm">Stephen Gandy's site</

a>. I've gotten some of these models for as low as US$25.

[jackflesher]

Claudiu:

 

<p>

 

Very nice images! This subject gets addressed by different

individuals fairly regularly in this forum, and my standard answer

applies -- all IMO, of course: Don't get rid of your SLR system until

you are sure you are going to have a happy relationship with an M.

 

<p>

 

That being said and by my judging your posted images, you seem to

make very good use of the super-wide end of the lenses in your

current Minolta system. (My personal favorite is the B&W shot through

the rotten tree.) Given that you want to expand into photographing

people, it would seem to me that your best option for transitioning

to the M would be to keep as much of you current SLR system as

possible, and perhaps pick up a used M6TTL and 35asph 'cron to start.

This set-up will be top quality, and will allow you to really get the

flavor of street-type shooting with the M. If you like it, great! You

have made a great start and can now decide which pieces of your SLR

system you want to sell, and which of your M you want to expand. If

on the other hand, the honeymoon with the M ends shortly after the

purchase (as it does for many - and which explains why there are

always fairly good deals to be had on mint used M6 outfits) then you

are not going to lose out much on a resale of the M gear.

 

<p>

 

Let us know what you decide!

[godfrey]

Claudiu,

 

<p>

 

Like others, I am delighted with the photos you are already

achieving. I understand the desire for something different,

though ... I stopped using SLRs almost entirely and then

completely because all the work I love to do now makes a

rangefinder camera as good or better.

 

<p>

 

But I'd hate to see you dive in and then miss what is obviously a

very successful kit for you. Maybe you should try something

different ... what I find is that as nice as my Leica M kit is, it

remains somewhat bulky compared to various compact 35mm

cameras, which means I can carry them more often and get

almost as many stunning photos with them. If you like all

manual operation, a Rollei 35S is a good choice. If you would

like "mostly manual", a Minox 35GT-E. And if you want the option

of full automatic with extensive override capability, a Contax T3.

The last is the most expensive of these and still wouldn't cost

near what a new Summicron-M 35/2 ASPH does. They all have

good lenses and can take superb photos, and are very nice for

those candid moments when a small, quiet camera excels.

 

<p>

 

A used Leica M4-P and a used 35 or 50mm lens remain other

good options too, of course. The two together would cost just a

hair more than that new 35/2, on average.

 

<p>

 

Lately I've been having fun shooting with an old Canon Dial 35-2

which I picked up for $40. The photos it makes are remarkably

good, and it has that unobtrusiveness that makes it rival the

Leica for candid work.

 

<p>

 

Keep shooting whatever you decide. You have a wonderful eye!

[haim_toeg]

Claudio,

 

<p>

 

You make excellent photos with your current system. However, if you

want to change, buy a used Leica, M4-P or M6 and a used lens or two.

If you do not like them, you can always sell them and make almost as

much as you spent. Leica equipment retains its value very well. If

you buy in Holland (that's where I assume you are) and sell on eBay

you may even be able to make a little money...

[gary_yeowell]

Claudiu,

You have indeed a very good collection of images on your site, some

of which would have been more difficult to achieve on a rangefinder

camera like the M6, specifically the telephoto landscapes and close-

up hand details (without cropping of course).

Having gone through a very similar course in my photography, starting

as a landscape photographer, moving to travel and now more people

oriented imagery I can understand your feelings toward the static

nature of your earlier work and especially the excitement in seeing

the work of Salgado, Harvey etc, I would add Steve Mccurry to that

list.

I also would agree that an M6 with a 28&50 or 35&90 is an unbeatable

combination for all the reasons you mentioned and given your obvious

talent I think you would migrate to the system very well once the

steep learning curve has passed. For what it is worth in my opinion

your black & white portraits are your strongest work and given some

of your excellent use of colour in the landscapes I'd like to have

seen some colour people work.

Regarding the aquisition of the Leica gear, my advice is to find a

used M6 'non' ttl with a couple of used lenses which match your eye

which from your work would seem like a 35&75 or thereabouts. You may

need to modify your style but it may prove inspirational. If at a

later date you really miss what an SLR gave you then also consider a

leica R6 as a supplement possibly with a 60 macro, I did the same

thing as it works harmoniously with the 'M'.

 

<p>

 

Good luck.

[andy_piper2]

Claudiu:

 

<p>

 

Do you have access to the Voigtlander line? You mentioned you might

try some of their lenses eventually.

 

<p>

 

Unless you are going to completely abandon the style and vision shown

on your web site, I think you would be best served by keeping as much

of your SLR equipment as possible, especially the long and short

lenses, and getting a Cosina/V'lander Bessa-R rangefinder (all manual,

all mechanical, metered) with a 35mm f/1.7. This will allow you to get

your feet wet and see if the RF approach works for you for about

US$1000. If need be, sell the 28-70 and 50 1.4 since the RF is MOST

functional in the range 28-75 or 35-90 anyway, and your lens will be a

fast f/1.7. But keep the 17, 20-35, and 80-200 and Dynax body.

 

<p>

 

You will eventually be able to 'upgrade' by buying an Leica body and

adapting the 35 V'lander to fit it, and then eventually buying Leica

lenses if you want. Or you can buy a set of V'lander lenses and

eventually use all of them on a Leica-M.

 

<p>

 

Another option is get the M6 (new or used) with V'lander 35 f/1.7 and

90 f/3.5, saving, what?, $2000? That's about all you'll get selling

the remaining Minolta equipment anyway.

 

<p>

 

If you buy either used Leica or the Vlander, and then decide it's not

for you, the cash lost will not be terribly different. And you may be

able to find USED Vlander as well.

[Rob F.]

Claudio,

 

<p>

 

No Leica is going to improve your already perfect composition. You

have developed a recognizable "style". I would be reluctant to sell

the wide angles, because they are integrated into your style. So

what do you need? Sharper images? Better contrast? More subtle

color? Or are you wanting to expand your way of seeing by using a

different type of finder? That's the main thing the Leica might do

for you. I think the wideangles used on the reflex camera might be

best for your precise way of aligning foreground and background,

though.

 

<p>

 

So I'd agree with those who say to try out a Leica M and one lens, to

see what it does for you, before cashing in any gear. You might try

a 28mm or 35mm on the M6 for a start.

[claudiu_falub]

Thanks a lot to all who answered me. I'll keep you informed what

decision I have made. I'll go these days to try again the M6 and

Hexar. I have to make a tough decision: Shall I keep the SLR line and

buy the Hexar (electric, AF, single lens ...) or shall I go to the

Leica M universe ... Brrrr ;-)

Bye,

Claudiu

[alan_ball1]

Claudiu,

You mention your veneration for Salgado as part of what draws you

towards RF photography. You might like to know that Salgado routinely

uses SLRs for his people work (in his case, Leica R6, often mounted

with a 60mm macro, but it might just as well be a Dynax or anything

else, just a question of personal taste and habit).

 

<p>

 

I am a great fan of Leica M, and perfectly understand your wish to

try the style of photography that people associate with Leica M.

 

<p>

 

But, as I already wrote in an earlier post, it would be a scandal if

you deprived yourself from the hard earned tools that have helped you

create such a wonderful portfolio, and if you deprived yourself of

the means of eventually returning to your landscapes/nature

inclinations.

 

<p>

 

Money does not come easy for everyone, and there has been a lot of

hard earned money wasted on myths propagated in the photoworld. Also,

do not believe that you will be able to resell *new* standard Leica M

gear for a price even remotely near what you will have forked out

(2nd hand items are a different matter, but you mentioned you wanted

new). You'd have to wait 10 years for that, and, by 2010, I am not so

sure the market will be that keen on 35mm film technology at all.

 

<p>

 

So, again, if you must flirt with RF, give a try to the Hexar. You

could finance that with the 28-70, without creating too much of a

void in your current capabilities....

[richie chishty]

Claudiu:

 

<p>

 

In the September-October 2001 issue of American Photo magazine (page

62) Salgado mentions that he uses three Leica R6 bodies with 28mm,

35mm and 60mm lenses for 95% of his current photography. He also

mentions using Leica M cameras, but obviously only a fraction of the

time. You have a good SLR outfit. I would think hard before selling

it all for the Leica M system.

 

<p>

 

I used to be Nikon and Canon system user before switching completely

to Leica M and SLR cameras and lenses. The Leica lenses are clearly

better as evidenced in my slides and negatives. I use the M6 TTL most

of the time, but the R8 comes out for use with the 60mm or 100mm APO

macro lenses.

 

<p>

 

I do enjoy the light weight of the M6 and its lenses, especially on

vacation and photography trips. I never carry the R8 for any length

of time around my neck!

 

<p>

 

Feel free to email me directly if you have any questions. By the way,

the photographs on your website are very

nice!......................................

[Robin Smith]

Muhammed has a good point that agrees with my style. I use the Leica R

when I have "a job to do" and I feel like carrying all the "stuff". If

I go on vacation this tends to be what I take with me. If I am going

somewhere and want a camera along, or I know I want to travel light,

or want to be less conspicuous, or indeed I am returning to a place I

have been before - the M is nicer.

[art_karr]

I don't believe that you are going to find a "one size fits all"

answer to your question.

 

<p>

 

I seldom blow-up 35 mm beyond 8 x 10 [that is why God made

Hasselblad and Linhof]. I can see a difference between Leica

and Nikon lenses but it would be subjective to say which is

better [talking final results not MTF charts]. Just a matter of

choice. I use an M because I just like rangefinders; totally a

personal choice. In certain focal lengths, I prefer Nikon [105

would be an example]. Again a personal choice.

 

<p>

 

Of course, if you are doing this for money [gave that up] it

depends on what your client wants.

 

<p>

 

Art

[robert_reis2]

I normally shoot with Contax RTS II's. but I have fun with former

USSR cameras. My Kiev 4AM(b)has the advantage of the extremely

accurate Contax wide base rangefinder and with a 35mm F2.8 lens and

external viewfinder it is a small, very quiet, unobtrusive machine.

Probably cost less than a replacement lens cap for a Leica.

Cheers,

Bob