group of 275

[steve_gibbs1]

I am shooting a group shot of 275 people next week, sunny outdoors. I have

not shot anything this large since I was an intern at my university. The risers

will be provided for me, but everything else is my show. Since I dont know the

width of the risers yet, I dont know how high it will be. I am thinking I will need

some sort of elevation (platform ladder, cherry-picker etc) and at least two

strobes on 12' -15'+ stands to fill the shadows. Am I over-thinking this?

 

If this goes well, I have a very good shot at a BIG contract so I need to "wow"

the hell out of them. They were very dissapointed with their last photographer,

who showed up with an old 35mm and a little shoe flash.

[conraderb]

I have never done a group this large, and this might be obvious, but take it with a teaspoon of salt.

 

sounds like you are not overthinking this, because a lot could go wrong here. doing a job like this casually means not doing it again :-(

 

275 people sounds like a large coverage area, so I think you would need to have your two flashes at least 30 feet from people, or have more flashes closer (the further away they are, the less contrast the lighting will have between the hotter spots v. the cooler spots).

 

assuming a 1/250th sync, I think that you are going to need two strobes that can consistently hit f11 or f16 at 30 feet - those are pretty powerful strobes. if you are getting paid decently, try to rent some monolights and power packs for them - they will be much better than multiple 580 or SB800s, I think.

 

You will probably want to take 10 or so takes. set up everything well in advance.

 

are you shooting on digital or MF? shoot RAW if digital, of course.

 

meter your flashes very carefully or use digital to preview your coverage.

 

cherry picker will be expensive, but will get a 'wow' factor for you. OR get two assistants to hold a ladder for you as you climb up.

 

good luck. tell us how it goes.

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste]

I've seen a picture of 200 people shot with a 1Ds mkII and a Carl Zeiss 28mm f2.8 lens. (http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=360667&an=0&page=5#360667 one of the last pages) The resolution was *just* enough. If you need good quality large prints then that would should be your minimum digital setup. If you don't have it then renting a 6X7/9 for a day would be far cheaper than the equivelent digital hire.

[al_kaplan1]

The right way to do this would be with a 4x5 view camera which allows you to tilt the lensboard. This lets you change the plane of focus so everybody from the people sitting in the front row to those standing in the back row will be in sharp focus. It might be worth teaming up with another photographer for this shoot, somebody with the equipment and experience in using it. They'd likely be specialized in interior and product photography anyway and wouldn't try to steal the account from you.

[picturesque]

Look at Danny Wong's response in the following thread. And there are other posts, too, do a search.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00B5iJ

 

I don't think you are overthinking this--probably underthinking it, since you will need mega-powered flashes to fill direct sun.

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste]

Check that your meter can meter flash and ambient seperately, mine can't and it is annoying.

[aleskoubik]

Steve check this image. It is a group of about 200. I had 8 ft ladder and 20 mm lens (35mm format)

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/3576373

 

Good luck

[steve_gibbs1]

I own plenty of strobes & power. Combined of about 6000ws, and I know I

wont need all that. I worked behind an old 8x10 for about 5 years, so I'm pretty

experienced with a view cam.

 

Ben-is that image more than 200 people?

 

Heres the kicker: I only have 15 minutes per group and there will be 20

groups! Not all are that large, but the 275 group is my big concern. They are

all used to group photos so I am HOPING they are a little more organized than

my average client groups (weddings). Bull horn and radio communication w/

assistants a must!

 

My digital extents are only 12MP and I have serious doubts about that being

enough. I have a Hassy setup, but again, it may not be enough. I dont own a

view cam anymore (didnt use it enough) but Im sure I can rent one. The film/

process cost is a concern since this is a 'print sales" job. (Guaranteed

minimum sales) But the general consensis seems to be "go large format"???

[Jerry_]

If you have a 40mm or 50mm lens for the Hasselblad, you should be able to cover the group. Bracket your exposure(s) and with a couple of strobes, you should be good.

 

 

 

Or as suggested above, a 4x5 camera for a larger negative, which should result in a decent print.

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste]

I didn't count it but the thread talked about a lens for 200+ as far as I remember.

 

What is the size of the smaller groups? Assuming that they will be positioned on the same risers, you could stay with one setting for fill. Just hope that the light doesn't change or clouds get in the way as not only will you have to remeter, but you will have to run over to your lights to adjust fill as well.

[danny_wong2]

Your biggest concern after reading (hopfully) all the facts is the direction and location of these risers. You are shooting 20 groups with 15 min between each group - a time span of min 5 hours plus contingency of another 2-3hrs --- think how far the sun's direction and intensity changes over that long of a period.

 

If you have a say in the location of the riser set them up in an shady area to eliminate as much direct sunlight as possible. You seem to have the firepower in your arsenal but getting the power to your powerpack might be an issue. This way you control the location, intensity and quality of your major light source.

 

Issue of camera formats - how large is the final prints going to be is one of the factors in deciding which medium to use. I, like Al mentioned before prefer the slight tilt of the lens on a view camera to control your DOF. Also the large GG is really helpful. I use the 90SA for 4X5 or 165SA for 8X10 or 65SA when I shoot roll film. Also larger format is a must for my group shot are usually enlarged to 48X96 and beyond. But since you are not paid by the job but by print sales you have to look at your own cost.

 

Cherry picker is an overkill pricewise. However with this much moving around to change film, give command out and support for your major light source a contruction scaffold is highly recommended with guys securely anchored. This is more stable than a cherrypicker which the bucket size is very limited and moves(pivots) around a bit.

Scaffold can be rented at the rental shop, delivered and picked up or even staff to assist with erecting it securing it and disassembling it.

 

I am a beleiver of single major light source. Have you seen the group shots done with two light one on each side and seeing two shadows of everyone? Just doesn't feel right to me. Softness is not a major concern here when the light is so far away.

 

15 minutes to move a group of 275 on and off a set of risers seem very short time IMHO. The smaller groups should be faster.

 

Other points to ponder -

How to move the groups (staging) and who is responsible for that.

Weather contingency plans.

How about a preproduction meeting to co-ordinate things, get the paln out in writing and have everyone involved signoff on it.

 

My philosophy is to eliminate as many variables as possible and plan for all of them.