Switch to LF worth it?

[parasko_p]

Hi Folks,

 

I used to process and print my 35mm film B&W, but became allergic to

the chemicals. I sent film to labs for a while but standards were

pathetic(scratches on negs always) and so switched to digital (Canon

1ds Mk1).

 

I have found digital to be incredibly convenient but I realise that

my interest is in landscape photography. So, I'm contemplating a LF

switch.

 

My questions are:

 

1. Is 4x5 colour film expensive to process?

 

2. Is anyone scanning negs of this size, and if so, what type of

scanner?

 

3. LF Camera recommendations? seeking lightweight for landscapes

only. Are back movements essential for landscape work?

 

4. Price range for LF kit with 2 lenses possible for US $4000?

 

The Horseman FA looks great but too costly for body only..A Toyo CF

maybe? The Shen Hao is a possibility but no distributor here in

Australia?

 

Apologies for so many general questions.

Any advice appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[michael_briggs2]

1. Is your question do-it-yourself processing, or lab processing? If you are allergic to B+W chemicals, color processing would seem a worse idea. How are you allergic to B+W chemicals? Perhaps using a machine processor that minimizes exposures would work, but very roughly, color chemicals are more likely to cause true allergies than B+W chemicals. You could look for a better lab -- there must be an excellent one somewhere in Australia.

 

2. There have been several recent and extensive discussions of scanning 4x5 films. I suggest browsing the digital category of the forum archives.

 

3. There are many possible field cameras for landscape work. Perhaps if you could further refine your considerations, such as the importance of low weight, convenience of using wide angles, the longest lens that you want to use, price, etc. You will also find many past discussions in the archive.

 

4. A camera and two lenses for $4000 seems very doable, depending on the camera and lenses. If you want a higher end camera, you might have to buy used. There are excellent dealers who have a good stock of excellent condition used equipment.

[stephen hazelton]

Be aware that as pros switch to digital, it will become harder and harder to find good processing for 4x5 or 120.

[alec_kennedy]

<p> (1) From past experience, processing 4x5 sheet film was about the same price in $/sq mm as 35mm or MF film, (here in NZ). Except you blow it all in one click of the shutter. I guess it depends where in Aus you are though. 'Phone around for prices and be prepared to post your film for processing. <p> (2) For scanning LF negs consider one of the top-end flat bed scanners, eg Epson 4990, or the Canon equivalent. Read the forum posts, there are a lot of opinions out there, both for and against. <p> (3) My favorite 4x5 field camera is actually a monorail, specifically the Linhof Kardan Color, (NB not the Linhof Color or the Kardan Color 45S). It has a two piece monorail, the front and rear standards have tilt and swing and rise, and can be collapsed onto the short section of the monorail to give a unit about the same size as a Linhof Technika, but more robust and a fraction of the price. The rising rear standard could be useful for photographing down into a canyon or similar, otherwise probably the lens board tilt and swing will take care of your depth of field adjustments. <p> (4) The Kardan Color can be found regularly on eBay for $250 - $350, or so, without lenses. Add a pair of Schneider MC f/5.6 lenses for about $800 each. If you want to use Quick-loads then add $250-$300 for a Polaroid 545 holder. Still well within your US $4000, (enough left over even, to hire a porter). <p> These are my own opinions, and I'm quite prepared to be shot down in flames over them. <p> Consider LF photography to be a way-of-life, a culture, but don't try to compare with miniature camera (35mm) photography. <p> PS. you can email me directly if you wish, for any elaboration. Cheers.

[alec_kennedy]

<p> OOPS, At the end of para (3) above, my reference to depth-of-field should be more correctly called "plane-of-focus adjustments".

[mike ortega]

The following advise may come in handy but it sounds like when you get your mind set using digital cameras you forget to "see" the landscape in the same manor as when you are shooting LF. Do you not feel like Ansel Adams anymore when you carry your digital SLR? :-) My point is don't take the camera out of the bag until you feel the scene is right regardless of your tool. Next time just go out with a scetch pad and draw the scene. I am trying to make a friendly point that it is all in your head.

 

Now regarding your questions:

 

BW chemicals can feel a bit irritating to the skin if you do pan developing mayby try tank canister developing. Maybe try using surgical gloves.

 

I use 4x5 for creative portraits and landscape projects. I bought a used but in great condition Corona wood camera and have bought older voightlander lens for the sake of trying to get a certain feel. They seam to hold up very well. you just have to look for one with a good bellows and gears. Don't get anything heavy that you won't want to take into the field so stay away from rail cameras especially the older ones, anything over 5 lbs. will get heavy and keep in mind that parts will be hard to find for some of the older ones. I know I have gone down that road. Toyo makes a great field camera and the resale value remains high. Wisner, Zone 5 are also exellent cameras.

 

 

Epson 4870 is a good affordable scanner (aprox.$450.00) It bring good holders to support your negatives. That is important! They stay flat and in place, and it brings from 35mm to 4x5 sizes. I am very happy with the results I get with my BW negs. I do basic tray developing and then scan negs.

 

Color film processing in my town is 2.50 ea. so it gets expensive but I wouldn't want to try it myself unless the conditions in my darkroom are consistant and they are far from that.

 

For $4000.00 you could buy yourself a nice slightly Wisner or Zone V field camera, 5 good used lens and an mule to carry everything for you! A am not a fan of Asian made cameras for the simple fact that I can't find any good reviews about them.

Try subscribing to View Camera magazine. You will get tons of good advise and inspiration.

 

We CAN work in this modern era of digital and film on a budget. There are hundreds of used film LF cameras out that are still in great shape on the market, and scanning BW is not that dificult if you study a little about histograms and curves then go back and adjust your shooting style and film to the results you really want.

As far as your final output (highend printer) that is probably the area that you should spend the big bucks since you prefer to scan anyway.

 

I hope all this makes a sence in the work flow and mind set you are trying to achieve.

 

Happy shooting!

[brian_ellis16]

1. Yes, certainly compared to do-it-yourself b&w. I just started doing a little 4x5 color (slides and negatives) after many years of processing my own b&w film. For something like 10 negatives (no proof sheets, just the negatives) and 10 slides I paid about $35.

 

2. Many people do this. Lots of scanners to choose from. The scanners of choice for many people not willing to pay $3000 and up for a scanner seem to be the Epson 4990 and the Microtek 1800f.

 

3 and 4. For $4000 you can buy almost any camera and two lenses that are out there, especially if you buy used lenses. I wouldn't spend $4000 for just a camera and two lenses if landscape photography is your primary interest, especially not for a first camera and lens. Something like the Tachihara (4 lbs, $750 new) and two lenses of top quality (e.g. a 90mm F5.6 Schneider Super Angulon and a 210mm F5.6 Schneider APO Symmar (about $1,200 for both, used) would be a very nice starter kit for many purposes including landscape. If you really wanted to spend more you could buy a used Linhof Master Technika Classic for about $2,000 and two new top notch lenses in almost any focal length you want for the other $2,000. However, for $4,000 you will have many many options so spend some time reading the reviews of equipment here, maybe check out a book on LF photography from your local library or buy one used on Amazon. I've read most, probably all, of them, they're all pretty good.

 

I consider front rise, tilt, and swing, and back tilt and swing, to be essential movements on any LF camera, front and back fall, and back rise, fall, and shifts, aren't essential IMHO, especially for landscape. Remember that all other things being more or less equal, the more movements you have the more the camera will usually weigh, and the more complex it usually will be to set up, operate, and take down. Landscape photography usually doesn't require a lot of movements, front and/or back tilt, some front rise, are my most used movements for landscape.

 

The Horseman FA is a nice camera but I've always thought too much money for what you get. The very short bellows would be a real disadvantage for me. I also wouldn't recommend the Toyo CF though I've never used one, only read about them. However, I don't think they have any back movements at all IIRC, which I think is a serious disadvantage.

 

You can get all kinds of camera and lens recommendations. For every camera made there's probably somebody out there who owns one and will tell you it's the best camera. I've owned 7 or 8 LF cameras but there would be no point in trying to discuss them all here. The most important thing for now IMHO is not to agonize over your first LF camera and lenses. If you stick with large format whatever you buy now almost certainly won't be the last camera you'll buy. I'd guess that probably 75% or more of the people who've been doing LF for 5 or more years aren't using their first camera as their principal camera today. And if you buy used lenses you almost certainly will be able to sell them for about what you paid for them if you don't like them. It's more important to buy something and get started making photographs than it is to spend a lot of time and effort trying to come up with the perfect camera that you'll keep for the rest of your life because you almost certainly won't find such a camera.

[jcolwell]

I agree with Stephen's comment about the reduction in processing support as the pros switch to digital. Here in Halifax, one of the two pro shops no longer does "custom B&W" in any format and the other no longer does sheet film colour transparencies. Between the two, I can get what I need, but that will probably end about five minutes after NASCAD drops its LF course - hope that they never do. OTOH, I'll be OK as long as I can find a reliable mail-in processing service. I don't mind waiting; I think it increases the sense of satisfaction when you see one that really captures the moment as you intended - it's the antithesis of the 20D dSLR which I use most of the time.

[john mackay]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I am also from Australia and have recently been through the whole Digital to

MF to LF scenario over the last few months. So, maybe I can relate some of my

experience.</p>

<p><i>1. Is 4x5 colour film expensive to process?</i> </p>

<p>There are a few labs around who still do 4x5 here in Aus. I can't remember the

names off the top of my head but you can track them down via Google. The average

price seems to fall between $5.50 to $6.50 AUD per sheet. I purchased two lots

of Polaroid pack film (20 sheets) and shot this to get used to using the camera.

I've pretty much settled on Fuji's new 160C in Quickloads for colour film albeit

the unopened box is still sitting in my fridge -- it's the closest thing to

Reala that  I could find albeit less tolerant of over-exposure. For BW I

settled on Polaroid 55 p/n.</p>

<p><i>2. Is anyone scanning negs of this size, and if so, what type of scanner?

</i></p>

<p>I use an Epson 4870 scanner for over 12 months now on 6x9 and 6x10. I find it

provides excellent scans to 6x enlargements i.e. 1200 DPI. So for 4x5 this

equates to around 28" x 22" at 200 DPI. When I say excellent I mean faultless at

10-12 inches viewing distance.</p>

<p><i>3. LF Camera recommendations? seeking lightweight for landscapes only. Are

back movements essential for landscape work?</i> </p>

<p>I can't really talk to this is detail at present because I haven't needed it

yet. However, one of my considerations was that I did not want to buy something

with insufficient movements only to find that I needed to upgrade at a later

date -- I'm sick and tired of buying and selling equipment.</p>

<p><i>4. Price range for LF kit with 2 lenses possible for US $4000?</i> </p>

<p>More than achievable. I purchased a brand new Shen-hao HZX

<acronym title="[4]in x [5]in film more likely (94mm x 120mm)">4x5</acronym>-IIA

Field Camera from Badger Graphic in the US with collapsible viewing hood. I also

purchased a second-hand Rodenstock Caltar II 90mm f/6.8 which is a rebadged

version of the Rodenstock APO-Grandagon N and a Sinaron 150mm SE which is a re-badged

Rodenstock APO Sironar S both on EBay. Both have sufficient movements for up to

5x7 and more than enough for the Shen Hao. The only other lens I am looking for

now is the Fujinon-A 240mm f/9. I also bought (off EBay) 405 and 545i Polaroid

holders and a Fuji Quickload Holder and 5 double dark slides and I recall I

managed to sneak it all in under $3000 AUD.</p>

<p><i>The Horseman FA looks great but too costly for body only..A Toyo CF maybe?

The Shen Hao is a possibility but no distributor here in Australia? </i></p>

<p>The Horseman FA is a very respectable camera and one that is always well

recommended. I always had my eye on the Toyo 45SP but it was too expensive for

me. The Toyo CF looked great on paper as far as movements and flexibility was

concerned and was a real consideration for a time -- very lightweight. However,

mixed reviews with regard to quality control put it out of the running for me in

the end albeit most of the comments I read were from when it first came out and

maybe they've fixed things since then. I am very pleased with the Shen-Hao and

the new versions come with a much brighter ground glass in fact as bright as the

Satin Snow -- I know this as I also purchased a Satin Snow. However, you will

need a fresnel even with a 150mm if you want to see the image on the whole GG

and I purchased an Ultra-thin fresnel off of EBay which is around the thickness

of a fingernail and can go under the GG with no discernable focus problems even

at close range.</p>

<p>I cannot stress enough that having to do GG focussing is a major shift in

process from shooting an DSLR -- be prepared to feel frustrated. Compared to an

SLR or Rangefinder the view is positively unfriendly -- dark, upside down and

back to front. You'll need to learn to compose in reverse and use a loupe to

confirm at the edges as to just what is inside your FOV. Also make sure you buy

a loupe that is the same mag as your most oft used enlargements. I purchased a

Silvestri 6x loupe off of B&H but it's got lost in the post some where. In the

interim I purchased a $16 8x light table loupe with a clear skirt and it works

perfectly -- could have saved myself $100 :|</p>

<p>At this stage I don't have much in the way of results. I shot my first 55p/n

on Wednesday and after clearing the neg and scanning it at 1200 DPI (6x) all I

can say is WOW!!! It looks better than any of the 6x9 and 6x10 Imacon scans I've

had done at 10x.</p>

 

<p>One of the reasons that I chose LF is that I knew it would force me to

slow-down. It would force me to think more about what I was doing, what I was

shooting and why. I'm hoping to find out over this Christmas holidays if I have

what it takes to make LF work for me.</p>

 

<p>Hope this helps...John.</p>

[parasko_p]

Thanks for all your comments so far.

 

I knew I would have to do a lot of research on this and other forums but just wanted to have a general idea about my options.

 

Brian, I agree that the setup I buy now will not be definitive and final. As with 35mm, where I have upgraded camera bodies 4 times, I'm prepared to do the same with LF, once I learn what works best for me.

 

A camera that is light is important as I am not a big guy and I will be bushwalking. Ability to use wide angle lenses (20-24mm equiv. in 35mm)with camera movements is also important.

 

I'll just keep reading before I take the plunge and buy.

 

If anyone has anything else to add, please do.

 

Thanks again.

[ellis_vener_photography]

1.) That will depend on where you are , but I doubt you'll be paying more than say $2.00

(US) per sheet for E-6 processing. On the other hand you'll be shooting less.

 

2.) yes and with all sorts of scanners from $500-$1200 desktop flatbeds to $10,000

Hasselblad Flextights.

 

3 & 4.) Some back movements --tilt for example, I find more or less essential for

landscape work. In that price range and for that purpose I'd get a Canham DLC -- rigid ,

versatile lightweight camera specifically designed for landscape photography in dusty

places (about $2250 (US)) + a 90mm f/4.5 Grandagon or 90mm f/4.5 SW-Nikkor and a

180mm or 210mm f/5.6 (Schneider, Rodenstock or Nikkor W. You'll also need: a

darkcloth, film holders (I perfer to shoot Fuji Quickloads becasue they are preloaded --

zero dust problems-- and easy to travel with, so I carry a Fuji Quickload holder; a Polaroid

545i holder (Polaroid is the best way to teach yourself how to use a large format camera

and to "proof" your photo & check your focus before you commit it to real film and the

expense of processing; a sturdy tripod and head; good cable releases; and a high quality 4

to 6x loupe for checkign focus on the groundglass. All of this will run you about $4K (US)

and maybe less if you buy used gear. Another good camera to look at is the Walker Titan.

[michael_briggs2]

I second Brian's suggestion not to worry too much about which camera to buy first. I suggest buying a reasonably priced camera, perhaps used, and seeing if you like LF photography. If not, you can sell the camera and view any price difference as rent. LF lenses aren't like small and medium format -- the interface is generic. When you buy, for example, a Nikon SLR, you then buy Nikon mount lenses. Once you have a set of lenses, you have a disincentive to change to a Canon body. With LF lenses and cameras, all that you need to do to switch cameras is to buy new lensboards. The interface between the lens and lensboard is simple -- a hole.

 

Most of the answers (including my first set) have focused on your specific questions, rather than the question of your title.

 

Reasons to switch to LF: more information on the film, which which show up in the print (depending on the size), the large ground glass so that you can carefully compose, the ability to use movements. Front rise will allow you to correct for converging verticals, which some photographers like in nature scenes, not just architecture. Tilt can change the plane of best focus.

[scottl]

I too had an allergic reaction to my B&W chemicals. The symptoms (rash)went away within 10 days. Since then I have processed again, but I am now MUCH more careful about getting chemicals on my skin, and washing/rinsing my hands often. For me, I believe it is repeated exposure over time that causes a reaction. Also, I was exposed to other irritants in the same time frame, so it could have been a combination of things that lead to the problem, as it never happened before.

 

Rubber gloves, a respirator, and careful pouring would likely solve your problems.

 

Scott

[michael_briggs2]

If your allergy is contact dermatitis (skin rash), then Scott's advice to use rubber gloves and avoid skin contact is excellent. For color processing, you could use a machine such as a Jobo to reduce your exposure. For B+W, you could switch to a developer that is less likely to cause this problem, e.g., phenidone, dimezone, vitamin C (ascorbic acid) based intead of one that uses metol. But for color, you don't have much choice. I'm not a medical doctor, so ....

[pvp]

1. I don't process my own. I pay US $1.50 per sheet at a lab nearby. They charge the same price for E-6 or C-41.

 

2. I'm still using an Epson 2450. I may upgrade to a newer model one day since they are undoubtedly getting better. Nevertheless, the 2450 does a decent job for most films.

 

3. So many choices, so little money! I'm using a Calumet Wood Field XM, which is a rebranded Tachihara 4x5. Very lightweight, and it has all the movements you are likely to want or need for landscapes. Back tilts can come in handy, as tilting the back also distorts the size relationship between near and far subjects, something front tilt doesn't do. This can be useful from the creative side, but not essential most times.

 

4. Certainly. You might have to settle for a previously-owned lens.

 

I'm very pleased with the Tachihara. If I were buying today, I would consider the Shen Hao as it is in the same price class. Early feedback about the Toyo CF showed a few people were concerned that the metal fittings were too lightly built, but I've heard no stories of them breaking, bending or otherwise failing to perform. I will add one thing: wood is prettier..... :o)

 

The last thing I'll mention, goes back to the cost issue: I've found that LF photography, at least 4x5, is cheaper most times than 35mm. That may sound impossible, but my experience is that the slow, introspective nature of LF results in far fewer exposures being made, with a much higher percentage of "keepers." So, while the cost per exposure is much greater, I don't have 5 or 6 (or more) rolls of 35mm chromes to pay for, only a handful of 4x5s for a day's shooting.

[jcolwell]

My earlier contribution was a comment on somebody else's comment; here is my reply to your original posting. I shoot a lot with Canon EOS 20D digital and a lot of 120 roll film on a Fuji GW670ii. I also shoot some but not so much 35mm film, with slides & B&W on EOS wide angle/backup film bodies, and also that plus B&W IR on some older and relatively compact SMC Pentax K-mount gear. I have recently started to sell photos to support my "L" habit, and I hope to sell enough over the next year or so to warrant investing in a full frame dSLR (sooner) and an EF 600/4 L IS (later). Over the past four months, I've built up a 4x5 system which I'm going to use a lot over the next few years. Here's what I have found out so far.

 

<p>1. here are some prices in Halifax, NS, Canada ($CA, not incl. 15% tax)

$ 5.50 develop 1 sheet 4x5 colour transparency, $ 10.00 colour contact print,

$ 4.00 develop 1 sheet 4x5 B&W, $ 8.80 B&W contact print.

 

<p>2. I scan 35, 645, and 6x7 (with great results), and will soon do the same with 6x9 & 6x12 on an Epson 3170 scanner. I'll try using this scanner to do two- or three-pass scans of 4x5 and then stitch them together, but I don't yet know how well it will work.

 

<p>3. My Shen Hao HZX 45-IIA camera has more than enough front and back movements to get me all twisted out of shape. It's light and well made. I think that back movements will be of more use for architectural and studio work, but then I'm just starting to learn about this stuff.

 

<p>4. Yes. I have assembled a 4x5 system around the Shen Hao 4x5, with regular and bag bellows, 3 modern Fuji lenses in-shutters and on-boards (90, 150, 240mm), 6x7, 6x9 and 6x12 roll film backs, 12 Fidelity/Lisco holders (8 of them are new), levels, loupe and dark cloth (with sleeves) for under $3200 CA (before tax).

 

<p>Most of my purchases have been on eBay and at

<a href="http://www.mpex.com/">Midwest Photo Exchange</a> (send email to Jim Andraki, jim@mpex.com). I bought my Shen Hao on eBay, but you can also get one (plus dedicated accessories such as bag bellows) from <a href="http://www.badgergraphic.com/">Badger Graphic</a>

 

<p>You might be interested in my Lens Price database (<a href="http://www.jcolwell.ca/photography/Lens$db/index.htm">Lens$db</a>), which I assembled to help me decide which lenses to go after and how much I was prepared to pay for them.

 

Good luck, Jim, <a href="http://www.jcolwell.ca">www.jcolwell.ca</a>

[alec_kennedy]

<p> I seem to be the only one plugging for a Linhof, monorail or field camera, so here's a link to a review written for the Large Format Page,

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/linhof/kardan-color.html

[parasko_p]

Wow! I'm overwhelmed by all your responses. Who said Large Format photography was dying??

 

Your links and advice have provided me with a wealth of information to get me started. I really appreciate it.

 

Merry Christmas to you all.

[jimsimmons]

As others have unwittinly noted, the cost of developing sheet film in the US is far cheaper than in Australia or here in New Zealand. As John Mackay stated, 4x5 costs between $5.60 and $6.50 AUD a sheet, here in NZ my labs are about $6 NZD a sheet. That translates into about $4 US, a far cry from the $1.65 I was paying back in North Carolina. For this reason, I am in the process of building my first B&W darkroom in about 30 years. Just to develop film, which I'll then scan and print with MIS inks.

 

For $4000 US you can build an excellent kit. Buy lightly used equipment, and you'll save a bundle. Someone is always getting out of LF, after having tried it out a bit. And if it's not for you, you can sell at am almost break-even price. One place to spend good money, though, is on an excellent tripod and rigid head. If you plan on tramping a bit to your photography sites, consider a good lightweight carbon fiber tripod. Gitzo's cost a bundle, but they are first class. Manfrotto/Bogen is next. Or perhaps one of the lightweight wooden field tripods, can't remember the name of the one that starts with a "B". Either Jim at Midwest or the folks at Badger Graphics or the folks at KEH Camera in Atlanta will all be very helpful to you for lenses, selling you only goods that are in good condition and at a reasonable price.

 

I also recommend the use of a Jobo rotary processor. You'll get excellent results with either B&W or color, and they do show up on ebay AUS on occasion. With the Lift attachment, you won't be touching chemicals very much at all. Jobo's USA website - http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/index1.html - will teach you a lot about this versatile system.

 

One last thing, you might consider the more exotic approach of using a small 6x9 view camera. They aren't really any cheaper than the variety of 4x5 choices, but they are lightweight, use less expensive rollfilm, and may help out in terms of always having a lab than can develop your film for you. If you add a reflex viewer (lots of added bulk, though), they operate a bit like an SLR, at least in terms of planning the shot. Shooting a tmax or Delta film or Ilford's Pan F can give you a really nice image, not quite 4x5, but it may well be all the quality you are looking for. If you go that route, though, you might want to conider a more expensive MF film scanner than the not-as-good Epson/Canon flatbed scanner route.

[doug smith]

4x5 E6 runs $2 and change a sheet here in NYC. I use an Epson 4990 with good results for

scanning 4x5, skip ICE and clean your transparencies well. LF makes you think and look

before clicking, which is not always a bad thing.

 

Have a nice holiday.

[nige_buddy]

As mentioned, processing here is around AUD$6 sheet (US$4.50) On top of that is the price of the film, and if you're talking Quickloads and bying locally, get ready for a shock. Vanbars list them at about AUD$175 for 20 sheets (Velvia or Astia). Importing your film will be cheaper but you'll have to plan ahead a bit better.

[parasko_p]

Thanks for the additional advice.

 

Jim and Nige, I did some checking with labs and you are both spot-on regarding film and processing here in Australia...seriously not cheap!

 

Jim, sound advice regarding 6x9...it may end up being cheaper though I will need to invest in an expensive scanner...you are also spot on with Pan F...love that film...haven't seen any digital prints with the same 'look'of that film.

 

Dare I ask...any 6x9 recommendations?

[troyammons]

Is it worth it, Maybe. IMO the limit for enlargements fo MF and LF is around 10-12x so if you want to enlarge up to 40x50 yes, or if you need movements like for perspective correction, or tilt then yes, although you can use movements with a 2x3 MF crown graphic too.

Also 4x5 creates cleaner scan files than MF. Also if scanning on an Epson its like dropping a format, so scanning a 4x5 on an Epson, is about like scanning 6x7 MF on a film scanner.

 

The better 6x7/6x9 MF cameras IMO are the mamiya 7, Pentax 67II, Fuji 690's, and maybe a few others. I tend to look for the sharpest lenses. You could also go for a Century or crown graphic, Mamiya press etc.

 

I too am allergic to a lot of B+W chemicals. I now process all my B+W in Folgernal. Basically folgers, washing soda and Vitimin C. It works vrey well with Efke 25.

 

1. Is 4x5 colour film expensive to process?

 

Yes, Roughly $2 per sheet.

 

2. Is anyone scanning negs of this size, and if so, what type of scanner?

 

Yes, Drum scanner. Your scanner options are very limited with 4x5. Epson scans are too soft for me, but at 800 dpi they are okay.

 

3. LF Camera recommendations? seeking lightweight for landscapes only. Are back movements essential for landscape work?

 

Super Graphic. I dont use back movements at all. Actually I think tilt are overrated for 4x5. There are just a lot of times when you cant use it. That said the Super has full front movements. It can be modified for back tilt.

 

Being in Austrailia I would think tilt would be more useable than here in the SE USA. If you really want extreme movents and a stiff camera you are probably better off with a rail camera. I have both a rail and folder, but I prefer to travel with a folder.

 

4. Price range for LF kit with 2 lenses possible for US $4000?

 

Super Graphic - $300 with lens. Ditch the electronics and add a G Claron for 5.4# All aluminum.

 

150mm G-Claron - $250-300

210-240mm G-Claron - $250-300

90mm Nikkor F8 - $600

Plus a few other things, like a cambo back and a cambo reflex viewer.

 

The Horseman FA looks great but too costly for body only..A Toyo CF maybe? The Shen Hao is a possibility but no distributor here in Australia?

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00EaxQ&tag=

 

Down the page

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00EV1q&tag=

[van_camper]

Don't let the comments about the Epson 4990 hold you back. In practical terms scanning 4x5 is not like dropping to 6x7, only if you hold things constant. In other words if you want a 30x40 print, then yes the 4x5 image off a 4990 would look like it was done with a smaller format. But I look at it this way, I use my flatbed to edit through mountains of images, and when I "need" a bigger print outside the range my flatbed is capable of, I just pay to have it drum scanned. To be realistic, if your selling limited editions, or very large prints, the customer deserves the best scan, and you are affecting your own reputation. When the image no longer looks right, its time to step up to a higher end scan, mean time the flatbed saves you a fortune. If its limited prints, spending a $100 for a drum scan is no big deal. Flatbeds have there place!

 

I have the Horseman 45FA. The problem is too many landscape photographers got use to working under the cloth too long I think. With the zoom finder, I am able to make small corrections in composition (left/right or up/down) without resorting to pulling the film out, opening shutter and f/stop again. At sunsets this is valuable time lost, especially when you must also reverse the above steps and fiddle with the dark cloth again. For the money, the FA is a lot less then the Linhof (a deal when it can do the same job as a linhof). It handles up to a Nikor360Tele lens (using 25mm extension lensboard), which to me is enough for large format. If you really want to do serious tele work, stick to medium format, or just throw on a 6x9 film back (it's plenty big.....2x that of 645 format). Tele work is not a large format cameras strong point (depth of field issues, bulky lenses). Sure you can get a rear 500mm converter for your Nikon lens to fit other cameras, but for the odd times I need it, its easier to throw on a 120 back. Also you get axis tilt, rotary back with 45deg finder (only available for the Horseman). The back is a bit bulky, but far better then carrying around another medium format system with a arsenal of it's own lenses. Of course, it is not cheap, but still a lot less then linhof, and not bad if buying used....and built like a tank!

 

One other benefit of having a zoom finder. When your waiting for a person/animal/boat/cloud to move into the scene, nothing better then doing it while viewing it through the finder. Without it I feel your shooting blind. Like focusing your rifle at a target, then someone covering your eyes just before you pull the trigger. Another benefit I found was when shooting grand canyon scenes. The light was right, and after setting up and shooting the "first" shot, I got another "second" shot off immeditialy about 30 deg to my left side with a gorgeous rainbow that had appeared. I would have missed it if I had to get the cloth out and waste all that time reopening/closing shutters on any other camera (except linhof tech)..plus the stress increase! All I did was reload my 545 with a new packet of film and was ready....loved it. A third benefit....at the grand canyon a guy was alongside me at imperial point (using Toyo field) while were both in the dark (before sunrise). I as able to set up my camera composition in almost total darkness(using finder), and used the infinity stop on camera rail for my focus. On the other hand he was messing with all that is invoved in setting up the composition (tripod tilting/swinging/dark cloth/etc). I had far more time to mess with other more important issues like metering. I had all my shots done before he got his first shot. The FA costs more, but it sure is handy. I do wish it had a bit more bellows, but as I said, use 6x9 for the "rare" time you need a bit more tele effect. On the other hand if you always do tele work (your style), then the FA is not for you.

[parasko_p]

Van, thanks for your comments regarding the Horseman. Previous comments regarding this camera have included no back/limited back movements?? plus not an ideal camera for wideangle.

 

Do you have any opinion/experiences of such limitations of this camera regarding landscape photography?