30D or D200...I know you're tired of this kind of post, but please read.. :)

[jason seo]

I have EOS Elan 7 with ef 28-105mm 3.5-4.5 and ef 50mm 1.8

I'm a novice, but I have a chance to get DSLR.

Just started looking around about a month ago and seems like

I got caught in midst of Canon vs Nikon DSLR war.

 

I basically have no idea what to buy.

20D is also my choice because it is a little cheaper and seems like

30D does not add ground breaking new tech.

Also, I'm pretty familiar with Canon bodies as I've been using my

Elan 7 for a while, and got two lenses (that won't work too well for

DSLR though)

 

D200 seems to be a very nice choice since I don't have expensive

Canon lenses, and got good reviews.

I know equipment does not necessarily boost my skills, but

putting a couple of grand requires some stressful decision making.

 

30D isn't even out yet and D200 is very new to even

compare those two bodies. However...as a novice seeking help

from experienced pros, advice or two would really help me a lot.

I think both Canon and Nikon cameras are fantastic, but

don't know their strength. Anyone out there can chip in a few

key points of Canon and Nikon bodies as well as lens?

 

I'll basically get the kit lens since I need to learn first before

investing more. I don't plan to use tele any time soon, but

shoot mostly portrait and architecture around my area.

 

I really appreciate your input.

 

Thank you,

 

Jason

[denisbergeron]

Since you have already Canon glasses, keep you investment and buy the 30d. If you came from films you will be very dissatisfied with d200 noise !

[mark from thailand]

Jason,

I am a Canon fan but I would have thought it is FAR more about which body feels better in

your hands & whether you want to continue using the Canon lenses you have.

 

As far as I know - the lenses you mention will work fine on a DSLR? (see http://

www.photo.net/equipment/canon/28zooms/)?

[dmanthree]

Both are out, and each has strengths and weaknesses, like any gear. Since you have Canon glass, keep it and get the 30D. However, be aware that the angle of view of both lenses will change, and if you're accustomed to the angles of view you get now, you may not like them when you mount those lenses on the 30D, which has a sensor that's smaller than a piece of 35mm film. In the end, you may want to buy lenses that provide similar angles of view.

 

FWIW, I like the images produced by the Canon a little better than the Nikon. Hugely subjective, so take it with a grain of salt.

[andrew_carlson]

Find a good store with both, hold each one up, push the buttons, check out the menus. The one you feel most comfortable with, be it a 20D, 30D, D200, whatever, is going to suit you better. A lot of people will also tell you with the 50 f/1.8 you already have a decent piece of glass. Most canon glass will be fine on a DSLR, FD glass with an adapter would work even but might be tough to focus.

[chrisjb]

Canon vs Nikon DSLR war

 

Hi, I`ve never felt it war just a love hate relationship. Both are good systems, choose one invest and get so far down the track, it cost to much to change so hate the other. thats my view. I did not like Nikon metering over 30 yr ago so bought a Spotmatic when that was stolen went Canon, been there ever since.

 

I presume you have read all reviews you can eg DPreview, Steve`s camera reviews and Bob Atkins as well. Get a piece of paper and write down all you expect from a camera, then go over the reviews and tick of what you want with each body, may help. Most Journos I know have shifted to Canon, just a couple of other Pro`s have stuck to Nikon. Most of work I send to media each week is shot at night 800ISO. What Denis mentioned before the D200 has a lot of noise at this ISO, so it does not suit me.Though I have not seen one yet so only whats been read. My friend with whom I swap studio work with uses 2 d70s`s but hasn`t complained.

 

Canon is more versatile with lenses eg. I use a variety of lenses incl. Hassy, Nikon, Canon FD & Olympus. The Nikon is limited, OTOH Nikon will indicate a manual lens in focus. Is that needed? Also compare the cost of lenses and accessories you may want later. You have Canon and know it already, just go to a photo store and fiddle see which one you are more comfortable with when you finished researching.

 

Its a hard decision I wish you luck.

[mike_earussi1]

Camera bodies come and go but lenses tend to hang around a lot longer. Base your decision on which system you like better not just which body seems better today.

[KenPapai]

It's really a very easy decision, and in your case it screams Canon since you already have the familiarity with their system. This so-called "war" of Canon vs. Nikon is nonsense as they both make excellent DSLR systems, the only thing lacking on Nikon's side is a full frame sensor and they need to encourage Sony a little more to produce quieter sensors.

 

Your lenses are already better than the cheap kit lens on the 30D. Since the kit lens probably only adds $60 to the cost of the 30D you may as well go for it so you have a little bit on the wide side of things.

[fredrik]

I agree with the points on using what you have, and combining with how you feel about the tool. I just switched from a Rebel XT to a 30D and love it. Very different handling, but a much more preffessional feel and handling to it (aside of performance). A friend has the D70 and is now going for the D200 (if and when he can get one). I always was jealous of the Nikon sound, quality and handling starting at the D70. If I hadn't the CANON lenses from my old EOS50e, I would have switched to Nikon.

 

Both cameras (30D and D200) are close in performance, the debates on pro/cons are typical for the ninoninte vs Canonite battles that raged ever since. IMHO the D200 weighs more, feels more like a pro camera, but that is highly subjective.

 

The camera won't make better pictures - a happier photographer will.

Plus: Bodies come and go faster than good lenses do, as these makre the real difference. Aside of already having CANON lenses and sticking with that, what made me feel better with CANON was the fact that NIKON lenses are pricier than Nikons'.

 

Hope this helps...

Fredrik

[michael_schrag2]

Jason,

 

I have both a D200 and a 20D. I like the D200 body much more than the 20D. It feels more solid in my hands and I like the layout of the various controls. I prefer wide-angle Nikon lenses to those made by Canon. For example the 17-35mm is legendary and compares well to primes and to similar Canon wide-angle lenses. See these well done reviews/tests - http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/

 

The Nikon 17-55 has similar image quality as compared with the 17-35, so that's a good buy for the D200.

 

Noise level on the D200 is higher than the 20D but it is not of any consequence for landscape work, or any type of shooting where you can use a tripod - since you will use a low ISO anyway.

 

For the 20D I have a Canon 300 f4 IS and 80-200 F2.8 IS. In this range I prefer Canon lenses. The high ISO (with minimal sensor noise) that can be used with the 20D really comes into play with longer lenses because you can shoot with a faster shutter speed. Combine that with IS and you have a fantastic setup.

 

Both cameras are great - you won't be disappointed either way.

[John Crowe]

When it comes to X-Factor cameras Nikon and Canon appear to be staying on pace with each other. When I bought my Canon DSLR I already had a few inexpensive Canon lenses but I would not let that stop me from switching to Nikon. What stopped me from switching was Canon's continued development of full frame cameras and when the precedent setting 5D came out I knew a Canon 1.6x body was the way to go for the next few years and bought a used 10D.

 

 

As you mention the 30D is not that superior to the 20D and from what I have been reading recently the 10D performs comparably to the 20D although likely a little slower in processing time. I have been thrilled with mine since October and this body with it's better build over the 300 and 350 D, could be an alternative for you that would free up money to spend on memory, batteries, flash, or lens.

 

 

I think the kit lens plus what you have would work nicely and get you equivalent 35mm fields of view of lenses from 28mm to 170mm, approximately.

 

 

If you went the way of the 10D I would opt for the Sigma 12-24 (which will also work on full frame) for your architectural work. Just remember that EF-S lenses will not work on the 10D. That would give you, with your other lenses, from 19mm to 170mm. Good luck.

[lovcom_photo]

Both make great kit.

 

But it boils down to noise levels.

 

NOISE performance is EVERYTHING.

 

Buy the body that provides the best noise free performance....ergo's, speed, this, that....if noise is too high, all these other features are meaningless.

[michael_schrag2]

Jason,

 

The 5D and 20D have similar noise levels. Look at dpreview's tests (D200 versus 5D) and judge what's relevant for yourself - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond200/page21.asp

[andre_reinders]

I am / was in the same boat. I have an Elan 7n I purchased almost 2 years ago. i bought it with a 28-105 f3.5-f4.5. I then bought a 50mm f1.8, and then a used 75-300 f4-f5.6 USM.

 

I was waffling about getting a DLSR, but then I decided it would make it easier as I started down the path of doing some portraits to make some $$.

 

When the 30D came out it dropped the price of the 20D - I bought one 3 days ago. As far as layout it is almost identical to my Elan 7N. Which is almost the same as your Elan 7. i.e. no learning curve.

 

I decided against the 30D because I could not justify the price difference for the features.

 

In the end you need to evaluate the features you will use and how the camera feels. What I can say, is that if you like the Elan 7 - you will like the 20D.

 

As far as the lenses - you only lose some wide end - not so hot for your architecture - but I think you have a great set of lenses for portraits. I am in the same boat and trying to decide on buying a used kit lens for about $100 (Canadian), or getting a used consumer lens in the 19-35mm range that would work on both cameras....at least to get me started until I can afford a 17-40 f4L.<div></div>

[daniel_taylor]

Get the 20D or 30D and stick with Canon since you have Canon glass. Both lenses will work fine, they just end up with different equivalent focal lengths.

 

There's just not that much difference between Canon/Nikon bodies at a given market point.

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste]

What iso's do you need/shoot?

[jason seo]

I'm pleasantly surprised how quick and informative you have been.

This is my first question and thought D200 vs 30D would have ditched you sine it's been a hot topic for months.

 

Nikon's definitely a pricier option for me since

the body+lens+accessories will cost me around $2500ish.

Canon's more suitable for my situation. I went to a local shop today

and looked at 20D. I was comfortable handling it, and it felt good in my hands. :) It's different, but there's similarity. Plus it's lighter than Nikon.

 

I don't really shoot high ISO now.

Not many sports, night shots so far.

As I experiment more I should go around 800+ in near future.

 

Thank you all for your advice.

 

-Jason

[ky2]

<i>If you came from films you will be very dissatisfied with d200 noise !</i> -- Rubbish. I came from a 20D and although the 20D is superior in high ISO (1600 and above), at 800 and below the performance is the same.

 

<p>If you have Canon glass, and you wish to keep it, get the Canon. The D200 has a nice viewfinder, is better built, and most important to me, can take Nikon lenses: even manual focus ones. Since I have a slew of those, I chose to concentrate on that camera (and I was luck enough to get one!). The +2 mpixel doesnt buy you much... The viewfinder and AI/AIS compatibility buys you alot, if you're willing for forfeit auto focus.</p>

[ky2]

<i>"NOISE performance is EVERYTHING."</i> -- I disagree. I hardly used by 20D at ISO 1600, because I hated the noise pattern. I kept it at 800 and below. What does matter, is the type of glass you can mount on the body. If the D200 allows you to mount (and comfortably use) f/1.4 and f/2 primes for a fraction of the equivalent cost, then you can easily augment high-iso performance. This view is subjective, ofcourse.

[ifeito]

Jason,

 

I hate to make your decision any harder, but other than those who can afford having both systems (Nikon and Canon) you're not only buying a camera body, but you're buying into a system.

 

Right now 95% of people will tell you that Canon has the current upper hand on the DSLR market. Nikon's D200 may be a strong contender, but all in all Canon still has the lead.

 

Nikon will be stronger in wide angles (however I don't think Canon's offerings are weak at all) and Flash systems. To me a flash is a flash, if you want more sophistication you need studio lights.

 

Canon has better sensors (yes they do) that work better for available light (read high ISO, making flash less of a necessity), resulting in better pictures (which is the ultimate goal of a camera). Many also believe that AF systems are slightly better in Canon's system.

 

On the big telephotos Canon has a much better offering, that Nikon came out with white lenses is a clear indicator that the war in that arena has been won by Canon.

 

I hope this is the kind of info you're looking for.

 

Ignacio

[m_barbu1]

I agree with Ignacio's comment on Canon's sensors. If you haven't read <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/page21.asp">this</a> yet, please do so. Albeit, it's a comparison between the Canon EOS 5D and the Nikon D2X, my experience has shown me that this comparison is indicative of the product lines as a whole.

[ky2]

<p align="center"><img src="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonEOS5D/Samples/ISO/lumi-graph.gif"></p>

<p>I dont know. Maybe you're all in shock and awe of Phil ASCII's noise graphs, but all I see here in more or less the same ISO/noise performance. 5D to D2x.</p>

[m_barbu1]

Yaron, I could see how you would come to that conclusion from the graph. Did you see Phil's actual samples?

[rick_helmke]

Keep this in mind...The D200 will let you use most of the old Nikon AIS manual focus glass. Have you priced those lately? They are nearly giving them away and any of those old lenses are pro-grade equipment. You could shop around and put together an incredible set of lenses for very little money and it would all be useable on the D200 and you could get some super Nikon film bodies for chicken feed. Canon users can't do this without an adapter of some kind and I think this is a huge advantage for Nikon. I can put any AIS Nikkor lens on any Nikon body I have and not worry about what functions I am losing. Since you don't have a lot tied up in Canon glass it is something to think about.

 

Rick H.