4x5 developing -- so many options!

[german]

Hi,

 

I've just purchased a 4x5 view camera. It's awesome.

 

Now, I am going crazy with all the different options for processing

the film. Trays vs Tanks, vs Drums.

 

It's too much for me.

 

What do you recommend for a beginner on the large format field?

 

I've developed 4x5 film before (about 10 yrs ago) with the tank

system and it was OK (in school). I did not know about the other

options then.

 

Please let me know.

 

By the way, places like Adorama and other stores sell everything

separately, correct? (Like the tanks, and then the hangers, and a

floating cap, etc.)

 

Please advise.

 

Thanks,

 

Germán Silva

[michael_briggs2]

You'll probably find that some photographer out there probably likes and succeds with just about every method. Each method had advantages and disadvantages. I suggest browsing some of the past threads on this topic -- follow the link "Darkroom: film processing" from the main page of the forum.

 

What factors are important to you? Cost, convenience, processing in room light, uniformity, etc.? How many sheets will you be doing per session? per month?

 

I process my B+W film in BTZS tubes. This works for my volume, and results in very uniform developing.

 

Tray processing equipment is inexpensive, but I never got so that I never scratched a negative. Maybe some other photographers are perfect with this method, or accept a low fraction of damaged negatives.

[greg lockrey]

Starting out trays will do just fine, metal (stainless) emersed in a temperature bath works the best. I happen to use 5x7 trays for my 4x5's. Wear latex or vinyl gloves. You can develope one to ten negatives at a time once you get the hang of it. This method is less likely to leave air bubbles on the negative. Use the trays for specific chemicals only, color for color, b&w for b&w just like you do for printing. Have fun!

[german]

Thanks guys.

 

By the way, I should have mentioned that I am new to this forum, though I've read a bunch of stuff (here) before posting. Very helpful.

 

Now, since there are so many knowledgeable people posting, we do get quite a lot of different points of view on just a single subject. That is very good, so that we can make a more informed choice, but it can be overwhelming too, as is the case with the different developing methods.

 

Since I am just starting with 4x5, I would say I am not going to be processing too much film at this time.

 

I am in a very limited budged, since I've moved my wedding photo business to a place where people do not want to spend too much money on photography (bad move on that respect) and not a lot of $$ is coming in.

 

I am, however, getting back to my film, black and white roots -- since I have more time. I used to go to an adult, community school (in Covina, California) where we would have color and black & white developing stations, enlargers and studio space! It was awesome. But not a lot of places have such fine facilities.

 

In any case, I would need to purchase everything, from tanks to hangers, to bottles for the chemistry, but no enlargers. I just want to do contact printing for now (Platinum printing, etc).

 

I did read that tray developing may be convenient for both pricing and portability, but that negatives get scratched quite easily and that is difficult to develop several sheets of film in the trays, in complete darkness. (Since I am planning not to shoot too much at this time, may be this is the better option!)

 

The tanks would be a better (easier) option, but I have to consider the prices. Like I said earlier, it seems like the camera places sell everything separately, and they are not cheap. The tanks go for about $67 and the holders for $13 (for just 2 of them), and then you have the floating lids, for $42.

 

Now, what are these floating lids for? Is this something optional or is this something that has to be there?

 

The HP Combi Plan (4x5) seems to be a good way to go, but the person that mentioned that method did mention he had to purchase 3 such tanks (and they go for $66 each).

 

Anyhow, that's where I am right now.

 

(I had to go for dinner at the time I started this post that's why it was so sketchy.)

 

I am still taking some more suggestions though.

[mark f]

I use a combi plan with one tank. I don't use the little spout to drain chemicals, though. I turn off the lights, open the tank, pour out the chemical and add the next. Then I can put the lid on and turn the lights on again. Works fine for me. Might be more of a problem for color since timing is more critical.

[german]

Thanks Mark,

 

I was just thinking that I could just use one "HP Combi-Plant" tank before I came back to the forum and saw your answer. (Mind you I had followed somebody's post in which he recommended using 3 tanks!)

 

 

So, $66 would not be that bad. Plus, it would be for black & white only. (Color may be for portrait or wedding clients only and I would send that out for processing.)

 

I think I'll give that a try.

 

Thanks,

 

Germán S.

[thirteenthumbs]

There are almost as many was to develope as there are film and chemicals. I first tried a yankee slosh it around tank, not pratical for the kitchen sink and counter as I did not want photo chemical residue in food processing and I did not have any other sink big enough. The Yankee also had uneven developement problems if not agitated a certain way. Next I tried a HP Combi Plain. S_L_O_W--T_O--F_I_L_L --and --D_R_A_I_N, film came out of the supplied holder if agitation was anything but gentle and it leaked a little. Then I spent the bucks I should have spent at first and Purchased a <a href=http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=25445&is=REG&addedTroughType=search> JOBO 2521 and 2509n reel </a> (but not the complete kit) and it is by far the best tank system. One can do inversion processing if you fill the tank full (1500ml) or use on a manual tank roller or add an extension and use on a motor base with minimun amount of chemicals for the volume of film being processed. Fast fill and drain, even results, easy to load. B&H nor Adorama list the tank and reel seperately but they are available. Call <a href=http://www.kspphoto.com/>K&S Photo</a> in Palo Alto, Ca. and ask for the darkroom dept. to get their price and shipping.<P>

 

 

I tried new off the shelf tanks, not used, and developed my own opionins after reading I like this and I like that with no technical backup for their opionins.

[michael_briggs2]

Here's a link to the sales page of the BTZS Tubes: http://www.viewcamerastore.com/product_info.php?products_id=36

 

The page has a very brief description, and a link to a PDF file of instructions, so you can learn how that method works.

 

Some people who don't want to spend $140 for 6 tubes have made their own.

 

If you decide on a tank system, floating lidd str if you keep your chemicals in a tank: if keeps the developer from oxydizing, and all the solutions from evaporating. If you return the chemicals to bottles, you would have no use for floating lids.

[leonard_robertson]

Here is another option to consider: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

An 8X10 Unicolor drum, which holds four 4X5 sheets, can probably be found on eBay for $10 or so including shipping. You can hand roll the drum on a counter for agitation. The motor base is nice, but you can get by without it for awhile.

[Troll]

I started developing sheet film in trays while in high school. If I could do it, you can too. And each and every developing technique has its pluses and minuses. If you don't try to develop too many films at one time (4-6), then scratching won't be a problem. Unless your using a PYRO developer, forget the gloves, they're just in the way and another expense, just wash your hands thoroughly afterwards. Don't make a big deal out of it. Oh yeah, and HAVE FUN!

[steven nelson]

After suffering with uneven development using a Jobo 2500 series tank, I purchased the Jobo 3010 Expert drum (Jobo was nice enough to loan me one for a month to see if there was an improvement). I use an old motorized base and have been very happy with the results.

[willie_jan_bons2]

i too use the jobo 2509 real. first try to load in the light. In the beginning it can be anoying.

I did put some pvc pipes (different sizes) around the middle of the real to fill up the tank, so i only need 1.1 liter of chemicals in stead of 1.4 liter...

[richard abrahamsson]

My first 4x5" negs I used a cibachrome 8x10" drum that I had lying around. Putting the film back against the wall, the curvature of the tank held it in place and 75ml of chemistry was enough for one sheet. I rolled the drum in a waterbath manually during the development. I later used this also for 4x5" E6 without problem with a little bit of running water in the waterbath to compensate for cooling of the waterbath.

 

However, since I could only process 1 sheet at a time I startted to use dip and dunk development using a HP combiplan film holder. 6 sheet at a time and Tmax RS replenisher (1 liter of chemistry to cover the film). I was eventually bored of the total darkness needed.

 

Nowadays I use a Jobo rotary processor. I don't have a dedicated film drum but instead I use a drum for paper in a similar way as I did with the chibachrome drum. However the radius of the drum is too large for the film to stay put so I've put dots of glue from a heat glue gun to restrict the film from moving around. This way I can fit 6 sheets of 4x5" requiring only 100ml of chemistry to cover them adequately and without problems with uneven development. I usually increase the volume to the double though to make sure the developer isn't exhausted.

 

I'd advice to get some system that doesn't require total darkness, since darkness can be quite boring when doing filmtests, when you have to do severel runs without the raward of interesting negatives. Economic chemistry use I'd also promote, perhaps not primarily of cost reasons but taking chemistry away for destruction is something I also find boring and don't want to do more often than necessary.

[richard abrahamsson]

If you go for the dip and dunk system using the HP combiplan. Don't buy three of the, get one, use the holder and get cheaper containers for the different baths. I used the combiplan bucket for the bath with the most expensive chemistry.

[chuck_pere]

Don't forget the used equipment market. Even Ebay. You should be able to buy tank and hanger systems very cheap. Most hangers I paid about a dollar each in excellent condition. And these are 8x10 and 5x7 sizes. New hangers are very costly. And you can use plastic containers for tanks until you find some good used ones. Checkout the food storage section of the store. Other kinds of tanks are also commonly available used but prices may not be as far from new as hanger systems.

[bruce_appel]

I have recently been in your shoes. I am using a combiplan, and even have done some e6 with it. It works, but is not ideal. It drains very slow. I am probably going to go the route of getting a couple more containers, so I can just lift the film into the next container.

[german]

Thanks once again. This is an awesome forum! Lots of input.

 

Now I see why the one gentleman mentioned the use of 3 Combi tanks and another suggesting just taking the lid off and pouring the chemistry out -- it is slow.

 

I am checking in Ebay, and will follow some of the suggested links above to see which one would be the best way for me.

 

But, like it is mentioned above, there are as many film developing variations as there is film.

 

We'll see what happens.

 

Thanks again.

[german]

I just read Leonard's option, about the 8x10 Unicolor paper drum, and I am feeling overwhelmed.

[ed_brock2]

Let me add one more option if you are on a budget and dont' like working in the dark. It is the newly discovered "taco" method whereby sheets of film are folded in half and secured with a rubber band then inserted into a Patterson roll-film daylight tank. If you find one of the deep tanks, it will accept a dozen 4x5's. Processing is done with the lights on where it is easy to monitor temp. and time and see the chemistry. If this is of interest, more info can be found on this forum re. this method.

[diwan_bhathal]

German:

 

I decided to forgo all options except the UNICOLOR 8x10 paper drum with its associated reciprocation motor base.

 

I got this on the auction site for no money at all whatsoever.

 

It allows me to do several things:

 

 

1- Develop up to four (4) 4x5 negatives at one time.

 

2- To forget about agitation.

 

3- To do something else while the film is developing instead of working in the dark (trays), or hand agitate.

 

I have a template for the separator that is needed for the 4 negative option and also for the gasket for the tank, in case that you may need one, which is cut out from a coffee can plastic lid.

 

What I use works like a charm.

 

Best luck in your choice. Let me know about your experiments with Platinum (please post news), as I am thinking of doing same.

 

Best.

[jack_myovski]

I'm in the same stewpot, except that I've absoultely no place I can darken sufficiently that also has enough room to set up a processing table, so I must use some sort of daylight processing tank. Since I too contemplate doing only small numbers of films I am leaning towards the print drum rather than the Yankee tank.

[jeff bishop]

I built a "dark-box" that I often use in place of my dark-room (such as on the road or off visiting). I like it a lot better than my changing bag.

 

All that aside, I use the Combi-Plan tank for my 4x5 needs (it does other standard sizes as well). At $65.00 they are not cheap, at least to me. I wouldn't be without it, though.

 

I use it alone (I only have one) for all my 4x5 work; black & white and transparencies too.

[james_brown14]

I used to use trays and went to Kodak deep tanks and stainless racks. This method was

best for me in that I too drained the tanks into bottles after each run. Never got a scratch

or bubble on any sheet. Sadly they are just collecting dust now as I haven't used them in

years, doing virtually all colour trannies now.

 

I may even post them for sale in the classifieds so someone could get better use out of

them than me.

[german]

Hey guys,

 

and thanks once again for your recommendations.

 

I am following a Combi Plan tank on an auction. We'll see how that goes.

 

Thanks for the suggestions on the Unicolor tank too. I'll see about that one if the Combi Plan tank auction does not fall through.

 

With respect to the Platinum prints, I'll be sure to post the results when I have some done. It might take a while, as I still need to order the chemistry ... and the paper ... and something for contact printing ... etc.

 

But I'll get there. I have to develop some film first ... or just keep using T 55, which is great.

[bob_beard1]

Like others, I tried using 8x10 trays and that did result in scratched negatives. So I tried one of the tanks (not one that you can invert) and never could get even development. By chance I got some advice from a local community college professor whose students were having issues with 4x5 film. She had them switch to 5x7 trays and urged them to be very gentle with the negatives. This really has worked for me. I develop in small batches and handle with care. No problems since I have used this approach. It's way cheap! No hangars, no tanks, and you can keep the amount of liquid used to reasonable levels. And working in the dark is nowhere near as tricky as I thought it would be. Your mileage may vary....