Does anyone else Charge an all-inclusive flat rate for the whole wedding?

[corrie sweiger]

In the past, ive charged xxx amount for my time at a wedding, and

then the bride and groom were able to order prints from the proofs-

and then give them back. (and with a certain ammount ordered id give

them the proofs at a really good discount)

 

But with current technology, copying is becoming easier and easier

for the customer.

 

Im thinking of just charging more and GIVING them the proofs and

negs on cd so that they can just copy to their hearts content and i

dont have to worry about it.

I just wonder if any other wedding photographers have found this to

be effective, or if raising my prices(yes, even though all

inclusive) will turn customers away. Any thoughts or stories of

experience is appreciated. Thanks.

[Jerry_]

If for no other reason, why would you 'trust' your new bride to be the one responsible for printing 'great' photographs of your images?

 

 

 

 

(Worse case: a Coke or Pepsi is spilled on the proof print. She takes the print and copies it on a Fuji Frontier machine, stains and all. Best she can do at that point. Will you be *happy* when she shows her wedding photo? And when she says you took it?

 

 

 

 

-----

 

 

 

Some brides may figure out right quick how to print from a CD, but if not....?

 

 

 

 

It's your business decision to make.

[darice michelle]

Hi Corrie,

 

YES YES YES, sell a package with the images on a cd. I have a coverage charge that

includes an engagement session, website of their images, a print from the session, 6-

hours of wedding day coverage with an assistant, website of their images, retouching, and

a DVD-CD of their retouched images. Usually they get around 500-600 photos from their

wedding day on a cd. Each DVD-CD has folders for each major category so the bride can

easily find what she's looking for. This "package' is a HUGE hit for my business. If the

bride wants an album or other products we sell, she can just add it onto her coverage

package.

 

The nice thing about selling this way, is less overhead fees (printing fees). The negative is

you don't know where they will make their prints and if they come out right. I do have it in

my contract that we are not responsible for the quality of their prints because they choose

their own lab. We do make recommendations though - as to where to have them printed.

 

So far, I have had no complaints about the CD's, only praise!

 

The other benefit is that yes, you don't have to worry about it. I do post their images on

the web so their family or friends can order prints if they want to. Even though the bride

has the cd, I still get some orders in. Not a ton though, but honestly that's not my main

way of making a profit, so it's not that important to me (making a profit from prints).

 

Overall, I'd say go for it!

 

Darice Michelle

[fotografz]

Yes. All my weddings are all inclusive. They range from a set of DVDs with all selected images

corrected along and proofed on Contact Sheets ... to the entire package including the album

done when next they see me after the wedding.

 

I recommend a local lab to make extra prints for them.

[darice michelle]

What Gerald said is true. You have to determine if you feel comfortable enough with a

bride making prints, your name goes on that print. But like I said before, I have had no

complaints. I have also been to some of my clients house when they had a cd from a

previous shoot and saw their images printed. They looked great to me, not as "perfect" as

my pro lab would do it, but still very good. One client even went through Kodak gallery

and I was surprised at how well the prints came out.

 

Darice

[corrie sweiger]

Thanks Gerald-yes, that is something that i've thought about-and no, its not ideal. I do have wedding packages that include albums, so at least THOSE would be printed at my discretion rather than theirs.

But youre right, there is risk.

I recently ran into the aunt of the groom from a wedding i did a while ago, and she said "oh, i love their wedding pictures! They even gave me a great big one for our wall!" (they hadnt ordered any yet-they only had the albums that came with their package-and i hate to think what they did to the album to copy them-because they ordered the kinds where the photo are sealed into it)

 

I guess i figure that if theyre already doing it, i may as well charge them for it. (but yes, i'll still give the option of buying prints from me) I dont charge a rediculous ammount for the prints to begin with-pretty standard rate-just about the same as other photographers in my area-sometimes less)

 

I still havnt totally decided what to do about it, i suppose i'll have to think about it for a while.

[corrie sweiger]

Thanks Darice and Marc-its good to hear other's opinions on this.

I like the idea of recomending a lab, and also putting it in the contract that im not responsible for their print qualities if they choose to print somewhere else.(very smart!)Glad i asked about this.

 

Any other tips or things i should put on the contract if i choose to go this way?

[wedding-photography-denver]

I offer both, but it works well if they get the all in package as they will receive better prints/album than they will likely get for themselves. I think it has value to offer both methods. Some people are anal an want full control where others just want to pay you one amount and get all the 'stuff' included (no thinking required).

[matt_needham]

Along with the files I include a set of 4x6 prints from a pro lab. This way the client sees what a decent lab will do with the photos, and they don't blame me if they get poor quality prints from a cheapo lab. I also include a list of labs and online services I recommend. I talk to the client about the advantages of using a full service photo lab, and point out that in many cases the price difference is minor.

[keith_van_hulle1]

So what I'm hearing here is that a LOT of you are giving away the store? If you're giving them CD's I'm assuming if you were still shooting film that you'd hand then negs to them too? Trying to figure how, if you charge one fee, with little hope of reprints, y'all stay in business. Or are you just doing this for "fun". The line about pro prints doesn't fly - I doubt most people really care compared to saving the bucks (I'm guessing these are budget packages in the first place) by taking your CD to the drugstore to get their 8x10s and such.

 

To the original poster - do you have any idea how much business/income you've lost already with the business model of no reprints? I'll bet, we're you to price such lost income into your packages, you've have a package no one would want to buy.

[steve_levine]

Since day one, we have charged a set, all day price. This eliminates all the BS of package A,B,C etc. And brides are less confused. We do offer a half day rate(70% $ of all day), but only take these on short notice when they fit our schedule.

[corrie sweiger]

Thanks Keith-

I do shoot film-but i have it scanned, and i'd give them the cd, not the negs.(i'd never part with the negs!!)

I have figured out the price difference, and it's not so extreme that no one would go for it. (Its about a 700$ increase)

 

At the last bridal show i noticed that many other photographers from my area are starting to go this route, and they seem to be thriving-some seem to be flourishing!

Im starting to wonder if i should change my packaging for sake of competition as well, let alone for sake of profit. Its definately going to take some planning and renovating of the finances, but i think it will work.

[darice michelle]

In response to some of the comments submitted, I think it all depends on where you want

to make your money. I honestly do not look to prints to make my money. I also do

everything the way I would want things done for me. If I were a bride, I would WANT to

have MY photos of MY day without having to pay another fortune for it. I personally don't

think it's right to hold onto the images so I can make more bucks. There are only so many

events in life that are so important. I just think it's the right thing to do, to give them

photos of one of the most important event in their life. It's not all about money, to me.

 

From the brides perspective, I have been told that they really feel like I personally cared for

them because I was willing to give them the cd. That went a long way with them. Giving

the cd to them I don't think means you are making less money, if anything, bride's will

refer you to other clients because of this. Including the cd can communicate that you

actually care about them and see things from their view point. What matters to them

matters to you.

 

I know many photographers that don't include cds and many that do. We're all different

and we all see things differently. It all boils down to what your priorities are in this

business, money or PR. I'm not saying money is not important, heck I need it to pay the

bills and the like, but it's not the most important thing in my business.

 

Joyfully,

 

Darice

 

PS: you may also want to add in your contract (if you're giving the cd to your clients) that

they may not use the photos for advertisement and etc., without your permisison. I could

go into details, but I'm sure you catch my drift.

[todd frederick]

To state this simply: I charged $800 per wedding and had more work than I could handle...photography, proofs, and negatives (now a CD).

 

Now, I am asking $1,600 per wedding, when I get my website on-line, and we'll see what happens.

 

Remember this: It all depends on what the market is willing to spend.

 

You could ask $6,000 per wedding, and get no jobs!

 

BE FLEXIBLE.

[EricM]

"To the original poster - do you have any idea how much business/income you've lost already with the business model of no reprints? I'll bet, we're you to price such lost income into your packages, you've have a package no one would want to buy."

 

Keith, have you considered how much business you've lost with your plan? Every year more couples chose photogs that do an "all in" package that includes the originals negs/files and have passed you by.

[keith_van_hulle1]

Yes I did. Back when I shot some 30+ weddings per year (it paid for 2 college degrees in Virgina) I did a lot of bean counting. My father (the banker) taught me cost/benefit analysis. I also listened to my mentor - a friend of the family who ran a studio and employed four other shooters. The one price fits all model just was not popular. Maybe it's because this was over 20 years ago. Not just before digital camers but computers, scanners, printers, etc. Maybe it's because many shooters, in the day, also had darkroom skills and weren't hostage to a lab. It was YOUR product under YOUR control. I'm sure things have changed some now in certain markets.

 

But I also think there's a component of salesmanship involved. I notice that actual pricing hasn't been discussed. For all we know, it could be the segment of the population being targeted here. I think that was mentioned already. But I can promise you there's just as many people who would think a few 4x6s and a CD would be something they might expect from a friend attending their wedding, not the pro they paid good money for. Maybe it's a quality of clientele issue. I guess the only way to measure whether this will work is go ahead and do it and see what happens. Just remember that once you go down this road, changing to another model may be business suicide.

[fotografz]

There are different ways of looking at the sales pitch. When I shoot both film and negs. the

client gets it all. I scan the most important film images for use in the album and add those

files to the Digital shots on the DVD. Even Hi res Lab scans don't cut it in IMO, so I do it.

 

With all the "keeper" images cropped and corrected, then burned to a DVD, they are

locked. Almost any lab can be used to make additional prints, but I strongly suggest my

local lab that has my color profile on file.

 

Today's client is quickly seeing this as a value added aspect. I balance out the lost revenue

from prints with the all inclusive fee charged verses the time need to manage reprints and

maintain storage. The quality issue hasn't been a problem.

[EricM]

Thanks for the detailed answer Keith.

 

It?s of my opinion that we are moving away from a printing society. Not just photographically, but everywhere. The monitor is replacing everything is seems. And everything shot film is scanned for that very reason, for them and for us. In the next few years all computers will be hooked to both the tv and the stereo through ?entertainment boxes? and instead of flipping through albums one at a time, it will be online media. Wedding photographers that can provide this, and/or files for their couples in order to do it, will be a premium. The traditional album, once the only source of the record of events, will soon become a secondary thought to couples imo.

[keith_van_hulle1]

Eric, you may very well be right. If MS has their way, instead of getting out the wedding album to show relatives, people will gather 'round the XBOX 360 to view the DVD slideshow. I feel old.

[EricM]

Funny you mention feeling old as well, I just posted this in the Leica Forum,

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ECPQ

[houstonphotographics]

I have done this all inclusive/front end loading of products for 1 price successfully for the last 3 years. I would rather print a quality proof book, hand over a hi res cd, and BE DONE WITH THIS CUSTOMER and move on to the next. Just calculate an average of what print sales you would be giving up on the back end, x 1.5 and roll it into your price. Then move on to the next client.

[samantha_hunter]

From the begining, we included negatives in all our packages. We are priced in the mid-

higher end for our area, and competing with companies that don't include the negatives.

Every year we get more business as a result of this. To our clients we are offering a

remarkable product, and get the booking becuase of our packages. On a personal note, in my

teen years I worked in a few pro-labs, and have no desire to be in one all the time, getting

re-prints and enlargments for clients. Selling our negatives in all our packages use to be

somthing that outraged other photographers, however, it seems that some of them have

gone this route as a result of demand.

[bill_clark___minnetonka_mi]

I give pricing on my web site that really doesn't mention specifically what each price point covers. It is intentional as I want to pre-qualify clients. This gives a guidepost to a prospective client to see if I fit within their budget and then, if they are interested in me, they can either E mail or telephone me for a sit down meeting.

 

The pricing I have on the web is mostly a la carte. I say mostly because I'm always open to negotiation with any prospective client. I see things in the grey and not always as a yes or no or black & white situation.

 

My suggestion is to have wiggle room in your pricing as prospective clients like to believe they are getting a deal when all you're doing is arriving at what you wanted to make in the first place.

 

That way when discussions do come up relative to images, files, negs, CD's, DVD's, proofs and other such topics you can appear to be in great pain but give in to a few of thse requests. Build it into your up-front fee then you can have happy clients that sign on for your services.

 

Just some thoughts to help you.

[cjogo]

"So what I'm hearing here is that a LOT of you are giving away the store?"

 

But charging for that complete "store."

<p> Including the negatives > has lead to a large part of my growth , in the business. The general public are scanning and producing prints for pennies. Very difficult to patrol that common practice,now used by all. Just figure out the average return profit, you may be receiving, from your wedding orders....include that in your "package." For example :: you charge a nominal $2000 for 6 hours --- and have in the past collected another $400 ( true profit/net)~ in orders... SO ^ $2500, include the negs/prints and you walk away.

[erik_h]

There is no way--none, nada, zilch--that I would have hired a photog who wouldn't sell me the negs. And as I paid (obviously) above market for the package, I have a hard time believing that they lost money.

 

Hell, why oh why would I want to be in a continued business relationship with (or pay money for prints to) someone who won't do WHAT I WANT? If I want to get printless negs and print them on snapfish.... it's my money (and no, that is not what I did). If someone doesn't like it, they are free to refuse my business.

 

Few things are more annoying than WANTING a cheap print (maybe to stick in your Xmas cards or paper your refrigerator) and not being able to get one. Or bring forced to pay someone ELSE'S time to 1) listen (maybe) to how you want the print to look; drive to the photo store; get the print; and mark it up considerably.

 

Is it any surprise people resort to flatbed scanners of the 'custom' prints? Fixed rate 'take it all' packages are the way to go.