CRITIQUE ONLY Feature?

[bbb1]

And what about the feature CRITIQUE ONLY?

It is not visible to all! I cannot find this feature in the overall

of PN!

How one can comment photographs on Critique only? Where to look for

them?

 

Still no answer!

 

So my question and suggestion would be:

Is it possible to put the CRITIQUE ONLY at the end of the CATEGORY

falling window menu?

 

- as we have ALL, can we have at the end - CRITIQUE ONLY - category?

 

 

I would like really to have some answers and to see this category

listed under all the other, cause I am no longer interested in

rating, only commenting!

 

Thank YOU, Biliana

[alejandrokeller]

Biliana, try in the <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/forum?topic_id=1481" >critique forum</a>. There you can access them by choosing either the <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/forum?rating_type=photocritique&topic_id=1481&subscriber_p=1&critique_p=1" >new thumbnails</a> or the <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/pc-recent-requests?rating_type=photocritique&topic_id=1481&subscriber_p=1&critique_p=1" >list</a> of the critique only images.

</p><p>

The problem is that the page is missleading since those links are located under the <b>Subscribers' Critique Requests</b> list. I think it has an historical reason since, before, only members were allowed to submit images for critique only.

[alejandrokeller]

and I second your motion of including the CRITIQUE ONLY in the GALLERY drop down menu.

[bbb1]

Thank you dear Alejandro to point it to me! Now I see where is that critique only feature is!

 

Biliana

[jayme]

This question & suggestion has gone unanswered since someone first asked. Why it's not explained is a mystery. My curiosity is peaked.

[darrell_m]

I've been asking the same for awhile, completely without admin response on this issue. The thread I started about it was suspended. It just seems like such a simple idea. Once in place, if it ever happens, the critique only option would become viable. At the moment it could read 'Critique Only. Select this option if you would like your photo to be near-invisible' There are various attempts at generating more critiquing going on-most notably the FIVE movement and it seems there is a genuine widespread desire to see something done. But nothing would be as helpful as the simple inclusion of a 'Critique Photos tab' below the Rate Photos one. I am thinking of submitting this picture attached for critique and ratings. If half a dozen or so of us submit it and we make a co-ordinated attempt to get it constantly at the top of the TRP our message would perhaps take on a fruitful momentum. Of course, if admin get back and at least say the idea is under consideration, it would be helpful. (Please note-I suggest this tab would be for photos submitted as critique only and would be open for subscribers and non-subscribers alike. The non-subs are important because the Critique only tab will need to generate as large a number of pics as possible)

[bbb1]

Dear Jayme and Darrel :)

 

That is why I posted again the same question! Maybe we are going to have more luck this time, waiting for the answer :)

 

Biliana

[alejandrokeller]

For the record, I said something similar in a post some months ago. The thread was about ratings without comments and my contribution stated that the only reason why I posted images for ratings and not for "critiques only" is that the amount of views the later get is extremelly close to zero. I also pointed out that it was very difficult to find the page with the critique only images... Here is part of the post answering why I would post images for ratings and not for critique only (dated Nov 1, 2005):

</p><p>

It is, as I said before, only to get more viewers. I want to say it clear: <b>the critiques only forum is very well hidden</b>. I will take a wild guess and say that 99% of the PN members have never been there because they simply do not know that it exists. You can access the rate recent pages from any page of PN, and those pictures are easily viewd by category. In contrast, if you want to see the critique only pictures the choice are 1) the thumbnails of the 10 newest or b) a list (without thumbnail) not separated by category. See what I mean?

</p><p>

Furthermore, It is also more difficult to find the old "critique only" pictures than rated pictures. For instance, if I find another PN user whose interests are similar to mine, I can always click on "photos rated highest by this member" and I'll get a thumbnail collection of the 300 highest ratings of that user. Again in contrast, if I click on "Comments on Gallery Photos" I'll only get a list and no thumbnail. Which one is friendlier?

</p><p>

I would say there is a lot of room for improvement in the PN DB design when it comes to the "critique only" forum. Maybe discussions like this one will make them rethink this part of their design...

[yann_r.]

I share your curiosity on this point, I've launched a thread like this and I didn't receive response. You can have a look <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00FZDO">here</A>.<br>

Not sure that admins can see and answer all the threads posted in a day, moreover all of us aren't in the same time online and we don't live in the same place of Earth.<p>

I'm interested by this issue but I don't have any suggestion to give, hope to read an constructive debate.

[alejandrokeller]

Well, to continue with the suggestions, besides what Biliana said, it would be good if the <b>Comments on Gallery Photos</b> of the PN members pages could be seen as thumbnail and not only as a list. It would be similar to clicking in the "photos rated highest by this member", but we would see what kind of images he likes to comment (instead of which ones he rates higher).

[bbb1]

Well dear Alejandro I did not know that you strated the same thread last year and still without response :(

 

I agree completely with You regarding the thumbnails for Critique only, cause when I went there, I was just lost in the ocean of titles and photographers names and I didnot really know which photograph to pick from this list!

 

So, a thumbnail would make it easier!

 

Biliana

[bbb1]

Yes dear Yann,

you started too the same thread, but I thought it was deleted, and now I found out that it is still there, but without any constructive response from the PN Board!

so, my thread is useless too :(

 

Biliana

[alejandrokeller]

Biliana

 

My comment, partially cited above, was posted in a thread regarding another issue. But I did not wanted to write it all again ;)

 

As for the thumbnails, I was not refering to the recent critique only list (altought that would be also good), but to the list of comments of each individual PN member. The same way that you can get a thumbnail view of his highest rated images, you should be able to get a thumbnail view of the images that he commented on.

[bbb1]

Sorry dear Alejandro, I missunderstood you for the thumbnails!

But still I think that would be a great idea to have thumbnails instead of the list, or to have like - rate recent - the window to comment all photos in this critique only feature!

 

Thank you,

Biliana

[cappoldt]

I don't want to be negative here, but I might point out, especially in light of a certain recent persistance in threads about low ratings and sudden turnabouts in outlooks, that perhaps comments are of the same useless quality as numerical ratings if all they do is state "I like your colors" or "Very nice I like it" or "Wow wow wow," to quote a few of the recent ones I've read.

[alejandrokeller]

Christopher, I agree. Still, I find a "wow wow wow" much better than a quiet 7/7 ;)... it can be the start of a dialog were real critiques can come out. You know, I sometimes write the comments directly under the image and in other ocassions, with whom I know better, I write them directly as an email. My contact with those PN members started also with few lines (OK, I admit it, it was not a "wow wow wow", but you get my point).

[jay_patel]

I agree with Christopher...I have plenty of them on my photograph to prove it. <br><br>

What I find interesting is that the site administration believes that anonymous ratings are the best because it is a true representation of what others things about your photos without fear of reciprocal ratings. But, yet somehow they also believe that comments are immune to this phenomena? I certainly appreciate the comments left on my photos by the photographers, and I am more likely to comment their photograph (reciprocal comments) for taking time to comment on my work...just like reciprocal ratings. <br><br> :-)))

So, much for putting comments on higher pedestal then the ratings.

[jayme]

Even with everyone's opinion above, still no answer from administration. My curiosity grows larger? Why not just explain their reason for the disparity. There must be some reason. Ignoring the question does not resolve anything. All it accomplishes is make those asking a question feel unimportant & unnecessarily escalate bad feelings.

[cjfraser]

Jay, I'm a bit baffled by your response. No one thinks that comments by their very nature are more significant than ratings. But they are transparent in a way ratings are not. When you see that "wow wow wow 10/10! ! ! !" comment, you can instantly see what level of thought or emotion went into it and respond to it accordingly. When all you see is a number, it's hard to tell whether to take the person's opinion seriously or not.

 

And frankly I don't want numbers attached to my photographs. Their value, or lack thereof, is not quantifiable. Now and then I post one for ratings, but purely for the reason Alejandro gave -- just to get more viewers, and perhaps meet some interesting critics or photographers that way.

 

In any case, as I understand some of the administrator's comments posted in this forum, ratings are intended mainly to allow the site to select a manageable number of highly visible photos from among the zillions submitted every day or week. Ratings are not supposed to be particularly meaningful to us as individual contributors. But in that case, clearly even the site administrators agree that comments, many of which *are* meaningful, are to be encouraged.

 

So I agree with Alejandro and Biliana: The critique-only forum should be more visible. At the very least, it should be made easier to navigate for those of us who do use it regularly. The only way to browse critique-only submissions more than about a day old is by wading through a list with no thumbnails.

 

Why not browse the TRP instead? Well, I do sometimes. But many of us who use critique-only mainly or exclusively would like to develop reciprocal critical relationships with other people who do so as well. For that, we need to be able to view their work conveniently.

[cjfraser]

Biliana, Alejandro, Yann, and others: Seven Stuartson has given us one answer in Yann's last thread.

 

Go to "Gallery," look under "Critique Requests," and click "Browse." Then, under "Group," select "No Ratings." The result is a thumbnail display of recent Critique-only posts, plus any posts that got no ratings at all.

 

So one simple change that would answer some of the requests in this thread is just to add the item "Critique Only" to that menu of selections, after "No Ratings."

[jayme]

I remember reading a quote several years ago by William A Ward. It spoke a truth I both understood & felt.

 

"Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me,

and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you.

Encourage me, and I will not forget you." William A. Ward

 

It works for me.

[bbb1]

Christopher, why are you coming with this "rating" again, here in this thread, when nobody is talking about rating, but Comments?

 

You are just pointing out something less important! and for your information those wows are comments for higher rating!

So, your point is not relevant here!

Cause we are talking about the Feature Critique Only and how to improve it!

Thank you for your opinion!

Biliana

Biliana

[bbb1]

Thank you dear Chris for your tip :)

I find that button, and opened all new thumbnails for Critique only!

Nice I could find those photographs!

So, now I would propose that this Feature Critique Only works as the RATE RECENT feature, so we can have all those photographs in line for commenting, instead, now I have to open each thumbnail separately!

 

Thank you

Biliana

[darrell_m]

I've given this issue some thought and come to 2 conclusions:</p>

<p>1) We ARE currently free to critique as many photos as we want and it is up

to us who say we want to do so to act on our words. Jay is right in one sense-if

we write wow wow wow as a critique we are not doing the photo much justice.

Biliana, i've seen a quite a few photos where you've left such critiques so

perhaps you are a bit guilty of this yourself. I've done it on occasion but

see how pointless it is. Whilst we would like admin to do something to change

the disparity between ratings and critiques they are not going to do so and

therefore we must use what we've got. The FIVE inititive is there. The Critique

only page does exist. Buried but alive and now found. So let's use them as much

as possible and try ourselves to generate the change we state we desire.<br>

</p>

<p>2) It is not in the interest of the site admin to give critiquing a higher

profile. Jay is totally wrong in this regard. Putting critiquing on a higher

pedestal? You've got to be kidding. On PN ratings are king and critiques are but a lowly dirty peaseant.

When the new RR interface was introduced I decided the ratings game, already

pretty pointless to me, wasn't worth playing anymore. I submitted a few photos

for critique only, leading to near invisibility. The only way to be sure you

generate critiques at the moment is to submit a photo to the rating system.

(Even then, who knows) This is not accidental. Give me a $ for each time I read

in a forum or elsewhere-'Ignore the ratings, they are meaningless'...etc etc

and I could go buy that D200. If critiquing was given a higher profile there

is the possibility that a fair percentage of photos currently up for ratings

simply wouldn't be there at all. With the knowledge that you'll get a good,

useful response by checking the 'Critique Only' box I think many many will be

clicking it. This is undesirable for admin for a vast number of reasons and

may explain the deafening silence from them regarding this issue.</p>

<p>Soon this thread will disappear, again without admin response. Soon thereafter

another begging the same question will take it's place and fulfill the same

cycle. The best hope is for us all to actually put into practice what we preach.

Actually, it's not the best hope. I think it's possibly the ONLY hope.</p>

<p>Wow.

[bbb1]

Dear Darrell,

 

I answered to Christopher above for the same woww issue :) and as you stated that I am to be blame a little bit for my Wooowws, I have to say something in my defense!

When I right only - wowws and bravos - this is obviousely that I have nothing to add or comment to that specific photograph that I am rating 6/6 or 7/7 and I estimate that this specific photograph is so perfect that I can only admire and enjoy it - that is why I also like to write down my admiration with my wowwwws ha ha

 

As we are discussing the comments, you are right, but I will never say wow on your photograph if you asked some questions about it, and if you put it in the Critique Only section dear Darrell!

 

So. let`s be more constructive!

Let`s comment more :0

 

Biliana