Pictures for a book versus an exhibition

[Nowhereman]

Having embarked on a project for a book of photographs I started thinking about the

difference in selecting photographs for a book versus selecting photographs when

working on an exhibition. For the latter I would (mostly) choose pictures each of which can

stand own and have a chance of being sold; for a book I would be more inclined also to

include pictures that fit well into the theme of the book but that might not stand as well

on their own. If one applies this point of view it follows that one tends to chose pictures to

a higher individual standard for an exhibition than would for a book. That is also the

impression I get look at photography books. (Moriyama Daido, a photographer I like

immensely, at one point stated that he much prefers making books which is in line with

his general view of abjuring the "precious" type of photograph, although he's been having

a good many exhibitions lately.)

 

Following the train of thought of the foregoing I started thinking about what sort of large

photograph -- say, at least of a 24x36 inch size -- would I want to hang on the wall. A

couple of years ago I saw a painting of a young couple that I almost bought because it had

a very strong mood. I'm doubt that I would consider hanging a similar photograph on the

wall. Now I'm thinking whether I would hang on my wall the photo below, which if from a

series that I'm doing for a book (only photographs, no text) about the pressures on young

people, students, in their early twenties living in a large, tumultuous city like Bangkok:

pressures (including consumerism) of finding your place in life in a rapidly changing Thai

society -- what to become, finding a partner, how to deal with family, etc. I wanted the

piciture to reflect a dark and troubled mood, not the 'land of smiles'.<div></div>

[Nowhereman]

Let me try to get the pciture to show in the thread -- unfortunately the graininess in the deep

black areas that I like don't show well up in the jpg.

 

--Mitch/Bangkok<div></div>

[bill sullivan]

Did you have a specific question, or are you just expressing your thoughts? If it's the latter and you are seeking feedback, yes, I would tend to agree. A photograph for a gallery wall can have the impact of size, although a group of framed snapshot-size phots can have impact, too. I go to a gallery expecting to look into the picture in some way, looking for the photographer's message perhaps, applying my own thoughts perhaps. In a book (or a Web site, which you don't mention) the photograph can (it doesn't have to but it can) take on the role of supporting the text and making it clear. In a gallery, a picture may inspire a thousand thoughts, but when supporting text it can clarify a thousand words. I suspect Susan Sontag may have touched on this but I'm not sure.

[beeman458]

"I wanted the piciture to reflect a dark and troubled mood, not the 'land of smiles'."

 

There's a reason for depression counciling.

 

A hugely missed point, when one speaks of hanging a "picture" on the wall is, which room of the home will the image be hung?

 

Maybe your image, to me, would qualify as hallway art as a hallway is a transition point in the home as opposed to the purpose of a kitchen, living room or bathroom wall.

 

One point which consistently escapes me; with the amount of negativity one can easily find daily in life, why would anybody wish to hang more negativity on the walls of their home to bring themselves down emotionally, even more?

 

Personally, I'd op't for images to hang on the wall which reflect "the land of smiles." Moody pics? To the hallway:)

 

Wishing you well as you sort through this question.

[b_kosoff]

Mitch, speaking as someone who has done both photos for exhibitions and books I can say

that your premise of showing images which can stand on their own for exhibitions and

showing images that might not be as strong but fit well within the theme of the book to be a

very logical approach. However, that doesn't give license to use photos of substantially lesser

quality for a book. A book can have a very long life span and if you put any work into that

you are not fully satisfied with you may find yourself feeling regretful in a few years. In either

case good luck on your project.

[Nowhereman]

Thomas:

 

>>>Personally, I'd op't for images to hang on the wall which reflect "the land of smiles."

Moody pics? To the hallway<<<

 

That statement and the rest of your posting seems to indicate that you are interested in

art as decoration. That's not what primarily interest me.

 

B. Kosoff:

 

>>>However, that doesn't give license to use photos of substantially lesser quality for a

book.<<<

 

Perhaps there is a issue here as to what you and I mean by "quality": it seems to me that a

picture of "high quality" may fit well within the particular concept of a book but not stand

that well of its own.

 

--Mitch/Bangkok

[beeman458]

"Following the train of thought of the foregoing I started thinking about what sort of large photograph -- say, at least of a 24x36 inch size -- would I want to hang on the wall."

 

I responded to your comment above. Considering my feelings about art, curators and museums, it's no surprise that I choose to think of the wall in a home as opposed to the walls in the wacky world of galleries and museums.

 

You might explore my comment a bit more then the superficial as the walls of a home, for many, "is" their personal museum where they're the curator and the choice of art which they choose to display, in what rooms has many psychological implications worth exploring.

 

"That statement and the rest of your posting seems to indicate that you are interested in art as decoration. That's not what primarily interest me."

 

Your above shows you need to reread what I posted.

[Nowhereman]

Thomas, I wasn't being contentious, nor do I mean to be obtuse, and I've reread your

posting. Perhaps we have a difference in emphasis: I wrote about what sort of (large)

picture one might hang on a wall because I was trying to clarify in my own mind why I

found the painting of that couple something that I might want to live which was not likely

to be the case of a photograph of the same couple. Granted, I did not write with much

precision and one would have to see the painting and the photograph, the latter being

hypothetical, to make the judgment, about which one is a work of art that one can live

with. Although I spoke about the possibility about buying the painting, which obviously

means that it would hang at home, I did not mean to draw a distinction between a

photograph that as acceptable for a home rather than a gallery. My reference to art as

decoration is merely an inference from what you wrote and, fair enough, that may be un-

warrented.

 

Another point: you did, however, writer about "depression" and "negativity" and

questioned why anyone would want to hang pictures of this nature. To be contentious

now, are you saying you want only happy art? A "dark and troubled mood" can reflect a

certain truth, like "The Scream" by Munch, for example. My book project is about the

pressures about living in a huge, hot, chaotic city at a time of rapid social and cultural

change that involves the issues Westernization, consumerism, and cultural identity, to

which, evidently, there is a dark side. Some of Moriyama's photography, particularly from

the 1970s, expresses similar issues in Japan. In the Thailand the "land of smiles" is the

realm of the tourist, but not the reality of the society, although there are plenty of smiles.

 

Below is another candidate for this series.

 

--Mitch/Bangkok<div></div>

[Nowhereman]

Here are two additional photos that I may use for this series:

<p>

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<img src="http://www.photo.net/bboard/image?bboard_upload_id=25034084">

</center>

<p>

<p>

<p>

<p>

<p>

<center>

<img src="http://www.photo.net/bboard/image?bboard_upload_id=25234184">

</center>

[beeman458]

"A "dark and troubled mood" can reflect a certain truth, like "The Scream" by Munch, for example."

 

I do not see "The Scream" as depressing.

 

You might want to take a look at Lisett Model's efforts to give you some ideas.

 

The world has been in a constant societal flux since the beginning. What you're perceiving has been going on since the beginning of time. If fact I was having an interesting conversation/debate with a customer this evening as to the point of fact of society which is constantly changing.

 

"I wanted the piciture to reflect a dark and troubled mood, not the 'land of smiles'."

 

Relize in your efforts, based upon your above, that you're not exploring this tumult as you're creating a piece of propaganda to foster your view of how you see things. Your premise is your bias and this is what you'll be sharing and if sharing your bias is your purpose, then I'll wish you well.

 

http://www.nelsontan.com/articles/strtfoto/strtfoto.htm

 

A little something to help you with your efforts. Forgive me if you're already onto the above.

[jon w.]

I am thinking about the same issues as I set about editing a sequence for a possible book. This process is just as demanding as the stages of photographing and printing. I think of it as a similar relationship to that between singles and albums. Some images are 'hit singles', with a catchy hook and chorus; others are 'difficult album tracks' that only make sense in a broader context, and establish connections or set up visual rhymes. I would not expect anyone to buy them as a stand-alone print, although I might still include them in the running order for a (hypothetical) exhibition. The logic of the sequence has to take account of the need to include images that will connect immediately and viscerally, and will provide a 'way in' and encourage the viewer to have faith that the others are worth taking the trouble to understand. But a good sequence also has dramatic rhythm, just as 'classic' albums rarely consist entirely of hit singles. For a documentary project, there also needs to be a certain amount of the visual equivalent of 'exposition' - images specifically intended to establish context, and provide information that will enable the viewer to correctly interpret more obscure, or less obvious images.

Many photobooks today are serial - that is, they take a single theme or idea and repeat it, or slightly inflect it. There are many powerful examples in the history of photography, such as August Sander's Face of Our Time, but for me the more interesting challenge is to construct a modulated narrative, that moves backwards and forwards between different styles and approaches, but ultimately has thematic unity. IMO, the Holy Bible for this approach is still Walker Evans' American Photographs.

[Nowhereman]

Jonathan, mine is not a documentary project but the sort of sequence I have in mind is more

-- what shall I call it? -- poetic, like that of Ralph Gibson books: see "Days as Sea",

"Chiarascuro". But I agree about the sequencing and the visual rhythms. Also, like the Gibson

books (and Moriyama's "On the Road"), I don't want any text at all.

 

--Mitch/Bangkok

[._._z]

I'll echo what jonathan says. But I will also suggest that you only select from the very

strongest photos you have.

 

Sometimes you only gain appreciation of a photo when it is in a series with other

photos, whereas individual photos from the series are not as powerful. Sometimes a

photo gains in power of expression when there are words to explain it. These are valid

tactics, but to some they can be used (and are overused) as a crutch to prop-up photos

which in themselves are not particularly strong.

 

I find this for myself. I have been periodically been shooting certain specific types of

urban photos at a specific time of day. Some of the photos stand well on their own

compositionally, but many others only are useful when included with similar photos

from this project as part of a fuller examination of my subject.

[beeman458]

"Pictures for a book versus an exhibition"

 

Just a thought: A book of images is an exhibition once purchased and viewed.

[Nowhereman]

The difference is that in structuring an exhibition -- for sale of photos as opposed just to

show the pictures to be come known -- the photographer is likely to try to select as many

pictures as possible that can be sold; in putting together a book one would concetrate on the

"flow" of the book. Of course, there are areas in between these two poles as well when

structuring an exhibition.

 

--Mitch/Singapore Airport

[beeman458]

"The difference is that in structuring an exhibition -- for sale of photos as opposed just to show the pictures to be come known -- "

 

Thanks for the clarification.

[fate_faith_change_chains]

To be known or not to be known, is that the question ?

[Nowhereman]

No that was not at all the question.

 

The more I think about it the problem stems from the fact that most people consider

photographs to be decor; and that is really what makes a difference between what one might

select for a book as opposed to what one might select to hang on a wall.

 

--Mitch Alland/Bangkok

[aaron d]

How do you get a book published? How do you get a gallery exhibit? Take photos that satisfy your intent, but how do you get a venue to show in? How do I find some place to show or publish my work. The original post strikes me as a little bit of a lackadaisical "what shall I do today" musing on the living room floor with pictures scatter around. Forgive me for sounding like a crank, but my "deciding" to publish a book don't make it happen....

 

Seems like an editor at your publisher?s would help with the which photos question.

 

-A

[Nowhereman]

You got it bassackwards, mate. I wasn't trying to figure out what to put in a book. I was

raising the general issue that many pictures that fit well into a book don't necessarily stand

well on their own or even as part of an exhibition. Grantted, not a particularly profound point

but perhaps interesting to think about.

 

--Mitch/London

[ken a.]

The devil is in the detials. It all depends how you put the book together and how you display an image on the wall. Yes you can compare apples with oranges. But if you want to get an in-depth analysis, it depends on what apples and oranges you select. More to the point, I ask if you think there is a difference in picture selection for a book with no words vs. a book with text?

 

Its an interesting philosophical question, but there are no right or wrong answers. I suspect that like many things in life, there is no substitute for experience. Publish enough books and hang enough images and you will eventually find your opinions in the matter.

[grain]

(Nice work Mitch, regardless of motive. Especially like the Escallator/street scene.). A photo needs to stand well on its own even if you never intend it to be shown, what else is the integrity of art based upon? Book or Wall, it's the same criteria.

If it's worth doing it's worth your best effort. Commercial concerns cloud the intention of a photograph and are best dealt with after the final best print is worked out in the darkroom.

[Nowhereman]

Alexander:

 

The more I think about it, I think you're right: it should make no difference (book or wall).

Perhaps the confusing thing is looking at books by famous photographers, whose fame

permits them to inlcude some pictures in their books that cannot stand on their own but are

in the book only because the fame of the photographer.

 

--Mitch/Bangkok

[ken a.]

"Perhaps the confusing thing is looking at books by famous photographers, whose fame permits them to inlcude some pictures in their books that cannot stand on their own but are in the book only because the fame of the photographer."

 

Why blame the author's fame for the confusion? Just because the viewer does not believe that an image can stand on its own does not necessarily maen that the author, or possibly their editor or publisher, believes that to be so.

 

Authors choose the material they wish to publish and viewers are free to react accordingly. If you want to know why an image was chosen, I think it would be best to direct the question to the source rather than making a blanket, and in many cases incorrect, statement based on their notoriety?

[Nowhereman]

>>>Authors choose the material they wish to publish and viewers are free to react

accordingly. If you want to know why an image was chosen, I think it would be best to direct

the question to the source rather than making a blanket, and in many cases incorrect,

statement based on their notoriety<<<

 

You must be looking at completely different photo books from those that I've seen. Either

that, or you take evrything literally.

 

Mitch/Sydney