Choosing my first rangefinder

[benjamin_shapiro2]

M6TTL or M7.

 

How you gonna keep 'em down on the farm once they've seen Karl Hungus?

 

Ben

[SCL]

When I bought my first Leica, I was fortunate to have a former Leica salesman nextdoor who loaned me his M3 and four lenses for a month to help me decide if I wanted to make the jump from SLRs. I got an M4 37 years ago and still have it, and yes I've augmented it with other models. When I want to chill out, I grab the M4 and appropriate lens and go take some pictures. The point of this tale is to encourage you, as others have, to research the options, get your hands on several to see how they feel, and try to get a try-out period with what feels most comfortable. You'll make a much better choice that way.

[igor k.]

Thanks for all the answers! Very informative and helpful, I appreciate the help.

 

Actually, I did rent a M6 for a day. It's a very interesting experience. Very unusual, after 5 years of digital cameras. I rather liked it, but one day was not enough. I found that I need to learn to use it; because I needed too much time to adjust everything, I missed all the action shots.

 

Regarding my Olympus E-1 experience: it's an amazing camera. I tried to use Canon 10D before, and like E-1 _much_ more. Its build quality is amazing. Also, when it's on fully automatic settings, something like 95% of my shots come with an ideal exposure/white balance/focus in any lighting condition. I don't need any post-processing of pictures in most cases and don't bother with RAW, using just hi-quality JPEG. The downside of this is that I use E-1 as a point-and-shoot camera. There's no need to think about exposure or exact focus point location. Just press the button and shoot continous 3 pics every second, and decide what to keep later. I don't have enough self-disipline to disable all the automatic settings :) It also doesn't make much sense, since in most cases E-1 will pick a better expesure than I and it will focus better than I could.

 

But when I tried Leica, it was a huge difference in the way I take the photos / think about the image composition or lighting. That's one of the main reasons I want to try Leica. Going back to basics :)

 

Another disadvantage of E-1 is that there's no fast primes for Olympus 4/3 system yet. So, available light photography possibilities are limited. And I've found that I don't like 14-54 and 500-200 zoom bokeh. It's not bad, but nothing like Leica lenses or Pentax limited primes bokeh. But I guess that's a matter of taste.

[john15]

You should have no problem finding a good M6 kit on the used market. Plenty of Ms are going on the market as their owners make the switch to the Erwin Putts-approved E-1.

[andrew robertson]

I really like my R-D1. I'd say get one while you can, because who knows how long it'll be

before another M mount RF comes out - if EVER!

[alex_p._schorsch]

I have been photographing for years (too long to confess). I always shot with a 35 SRL and then started shooting also with the Hassy XPan. For the past few years I have been shooting mainly with Digital SLR's. Recently I coughed up the cash for a new Leica MP. The reasons? I wanted to get back to simple stuff. I wanted a light camera good for candids. I wanted to have one last film camera to balance my digital work. I wanted a camera to make me think. I wanted a camera that wasn't a pain in the neck (literally) to carry around. I wanted to keep taking photos with velvia which I adore. I am extremely happy with my MP. I use a 50mm summicron. It's a great little lens. I have a 35 lux coming but I think it will be tough to outdo the 50mm. This is a great break from using a complicated 35mm digital system. This is what is called "Quality Living". This about enjoying photography. This about dominating the medium without an on-board computer. I bought the MP because I wanted to go whole hog. No automatic shutter. Back to basics but I must confess that I have lost a couple of shots because it took me too long to adjust the controls. So I would say that for a profession maybe a Digital SLR is better but for pleasure a Leica can't be beat. I also like the fact that I don't depend on any batteries or memory cards. I have trekked 300 kilometers along the Indian southern coast. Walked from the Kulu valley to the Tibetan biorder and hitchhiked from Senegal to Morrocco. I like out of the way places with no electricity. I'm an MP man and loving it. In the end, it's worth the money you pay for it. PS. I haven't had any dust demons in my finder as of yet. Cheers, Alex

[vlad_chapkin]

Возьмите, Игорь Кривоконь, советскую дальномерку (например, хороший Киев или, если хотите с рычажком для перемотки - одну из советских копий Лейки).<br>

Недостаток - у них не леечный видоискатель, видоискатель важен в создании композиции.<br>

Можно купить за 50-100 долларов дальномер со встроенным объективом. В 70е они были вынуждены конкурировать с новыми зеркальными камерами, и встраивали первоклассные объективы. Идеальная модель - Олимпус СП-35; некоторые покупают Кэнон-..17...<br>

Дешевая камера позволит попробовать снимать "по-старому" и навсегда останется механической вечной запасной камерой, которую не жалко.

<p>

Если результаты вас вдохновят, будете выбирать из дорогих.

К тому времени из опыта будете точно знать, чего вам хочется

[frank granovski]

Re: "?...."

 

Regarding picking a rangefinder from "the list," I wouldn't. Pick one from my list and save a few bucks. Also, I'd forget the RD1. It's too much money and I'm sure they'll be new better with more pixel digi-rangefinders in the horizon. Then you'll be swearing, cursing and slapping yourself in the head. Tom A. recommends a M4-P.

[steve_chan5]

I guess the question is whether you love the signature of Leica lenses, or if you love rangefinder photography with Leica Lenses. If you just love Leica lenses, then a Leica SLR with the associated Leica lenses will probably be cheaper, and more in line with your existing experience. Plus, if cost is no object, you could pick up a DMR.

 

If you buy a used Leica, then your loss on turning it around won't be so bad. I don't know about buying new and then selling it.

 

If you're not emotionally invested in the tactile sensation of shooting expensive camera gear, then I think the through the lens metering and exposure automation of the Bessa R series, and eventually, the Zeiss-Ikon are good reasons to pick them over any of the earlier M series. The later M-series with metering and even AE are more practical, but they have shortcomings compared to other, similar cameras.

 

I have a Leica M2, which is a nice camera, but for practical shooting, I bring along a Hexar RF. Some people villify the Hexar, but I find it to be a nice camera. The motor advance cramps the style of silent Leica Photo Ninjas - but my digicams with tilt/swivel screens, long zooms and silent operation get me back into the game. The Hexar's shutter can stay open for several seconds in AE mode, and the stepless shutter goes up to 1/4000 second. And, you know, it's made of TITANIUM, just like Contax G-series cameras!!!

[andrew robertson]

Frank, believe it or not, I had no desire to upgrade my Canon 10D to a 20D. Pray tell us

about the information you have about forthcoming digital rangefinders - I'm sure the

information is 100% accurate.

 

Before I received my R-D1 in the mail, I had buyer's remorse. It was worth every penny,

though.

[nzdavid]

Vlad's answer was interesting. I can recognize "Olympus" I think. Possibly a Kiev in there

too?

 

Some good advice on this post. I agree part of the attraction of Leica is superlative build

and image quality. You are also holding a piece of photographic history. If you don't mind

using a separate meter, go for a M2, M3 or M4. Otherwise, get a near-new M6 or M6TTL,

or a new or near-new M7 or MP.

 

Remember too, Leica also makes SLRs including the R8 andf R9, or there's the older R

series and Leicaflexes.

 

Where to buy? Try www.photovillage.com for an indication of prices.

 

Re lenses, absolutely, get the best! Some superb choices: 24 ASPH, 35 Summicron ASPH

(or pricier and faster Summilux), standard 50 Summicron or Summilux, great 90 portrait

lenses...Perhaps the 35 or 50 to start off with? And as this is a film camera, try 100 slide

film such as Fuji Provia 100F.

 

If you want to try Leica digital, why not consider the Digilux 2? It's unlikely to last half a

century like the M3, but has had very good reviews.

 

Good luck! Enjoy!

[frank granovski]

Andrew, digital cameras are not unlike camcorders and computers. They'll always be better newer ones on the horizon. The opposite is true for leica M film bodies. Go figure, eh?

[andrew robertson]

Yes, but until they come out with digital cameras that emit an ultrasonic chirp that breaks

the sensors of all DSLRs on the face of the earth, they are not going to be obsolete.

 

A 6 MP camera can make very pleasing 20x30 inch prints. Obviously a 12 MP camera can

improve on this, but it doesn't make the 6 MP camera any less capable than it was when it

came out.

[frank granovski]

Nevertheless, why spend 3 Grand USD on an digital M-mount that will become obsolete in the near future, unlike all M-mount film bodies? Huh?

[steve_chan5]

The question is whether you want to spend $3000 on a digital RF that will become obsolete in the near future, or spend $3000 on a brand new Leica M7 which was obsolete before it arrived on the market? The Hexar RF was already technologically more advanced than the M7 before the M7 was even unveiled. The Contax G2 makes a Leica MP look positively neolithic.

 

When it comes to camera bodies, Leica M series cameras are hopeless anachronisms. The fact that they are anachronisms doesn't effect the quality of photos taken with them. And it doesn't effect their ergonomics. Lets not bandy around the term "obsolete" when we're using cameras with a bad shutter that nobody makes new spare parts for.

 

Pardon me while I go fondle my Agfa Karat...

[alex_p._schorsch]

Leicas aren't obsolete. They are manual rangefinder cameras that have a place in some peoples photographic workflow. Saying Leicas are obsolete is like saying automatic winding watches (like Rolexes) are obsolete. By the way, I prefer electronic watches to automatics.

[akochanowski]

Nice new handle, Bender. Weren't you banned for life? How did you jimmy the search function so "Vlad Chapkin" doesn't come up? Still suffering from those paranoid mad Russian Jewish conspiracy theories?

[bill_marshall1]

Zeiss Ikon

[andrew robertson]

Frank, I'm afraid you missed the point. The R-D1 won't be obsolete, even in 2012 when

Leica finally offers the digital M for sale.

 

But, I suppose it's gratifying to cling to mamma Leitz's teats and swing away, hoping for a

shot of that digital M milk. It's probably not coming for a long time, though.

[igor k.]

Thanks for answers again.

 

To summarize, these are the cameras suggested in this thread:

Leica M2, M3, M4, M4-P, M5, M6, M7, MP, Bessa R2, R3a, Epson RD1, Zeiss Icon, Kiev, Olympus SP35, Canon...

And since I agree with the arguments for each camera, it's still not an easy choice :)

 

But there's an Epson RD1 for sale in the other thread (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Co2Q)... Very tempting...

[thmt__]

M6TTL or M7 (much more reasonable and cost effective than the MP). And if you can deal

with a handheld meter, the M3.

[igor k.]

Ok, I've found that I spend too much time on this decision, so I just checked for the good deals on craiglist and e-Bay, and decided to buy... drumroll...

M7, chrome, used (3 year old) + Summilux 50/1.4 (latest pre-ASPH) + Kameraleder camera case + UV filter for $2750

 

I'm about to finish the transaction today evening and hope to get the camera by the next week. Thanks everyone!

 

Now, I need to get back to work, instead of reading photo forums... :)

[peterbilitch]

> Frank Granovski , jul 11, 2005; 10:59 p.m. <br>

> Andrew, digital cameras are not unlike camcorders and computers. <br>

> They'll always be better newer ones on the horizon. <br>

> The opposite is true for leica M film bodies. Go figure, eh? <br>

<p>

The price of the camera can be deferred against the cost in one year of developing film - I typically make about 1,000 exposures per month. 12,000 film exposures = 330 rolls = 1000 Euros. Lab development per roll costs 6 Euros = 2000 Euros per year. 1000 + 2000 = Epson R-D1 with one year return warranty. I figured...

<p>

> Frank Granovski , jul 12, 2005; 02:00 a.m. <br>

> Nevertheless, why spend 3 Grand USD on an digital M-mount that <br>

> will become obsolete in the near future, <br>

> unlike all M-mount film bodies? Huh? <br>

<p>

Why? Because I can, because I want to, because huh... <br>

<p>

Peter <br>

<p>

p.s. Frank, ;) <br>

<p>