first wedding

[laurenm]

Hi all, I've been "spying" on this site for some time, but this is

my first post. I have read in the past posts of major disgust with

new, inexperienced first time wedding photographers but, I will post

anyway. I have no formal training and just started getting "serious"

a few years ago with my first SLR purchase. I've taken pics at

family weddings and events and other landscape, portrait shots and

been told I should get more serious, so I'm trying. I know I should

prob find a job as an assistant, but...I've found classified ads on

the web looking for "cheap" amatuer photographer to do budget

wedding. I met with a couple today who have seen my photos and the

groom sounded like a quite experienced if not professional

photographer and I would turn over all prints and negatives to him.

I have been very up front about how many weddings and events I have

shot at and that I was only the guest and one time the maid of

honor. What is my question??? Well, I plan to buy a second camera to

have loaded with black and white or a different lens, plan my formal

shots ahead, see location at same time of day ahead, get list of

VIP's, take lots and lots of pictures, study my past photos to see

how I can improve, and up until the wedding on August 12, practice,

practice practice! Am I forgetting anything? So question is.. For

500 dollars, and a couple who knows I'm an amatuer, should I be too

worried or just shoot as if it were my own family and relax and have

fun. More formal question, right now I just use my built in flash

but 2 photo shop people have suggested for a wedding I get a larger

flash. Do I NEED it if pictures are fine without? Will it make a

photo better? Don't know yet what hall lighting is like but both

wedding and reception are indoors. Thanks for ANY advice you feel

like giving. Wish I had a link to show samples, but best I could do

is email a link to HP photo share program if anyone is interested.

Thanks

[paul_sokal___dallas__tx]

Lauren, first off absolutely yes you need a better flash than the one built into your camera for wedding work. You mentioned you thought the groom might be a professional photographer. Then why couldn't he get a friend to do it? Maybe he's trying to launch the career of the next great wedding photographer? I doubt it. Something sounds very fishy in this story to me. If I were you I'd be very leary of this deal, find a good photographer in your area to assist, and learn the old fashion way.

 

BTW, I'm a beginner too.

 

Paul

[timcorridan]

if you need to ask the "flash question," you're far from ready. sorry. tim (a fellow amatuer)

[KenPapai]

Shooting a first wedding with the camera's built-in flash is a recipe for disaster. You do not tell us hardly anything about your camera(s).<p>

Hopefully you have at least one fast lens (f/2.8 or wider) and have read all the articles about preparing for a wedding photo shoot.

[blakley]

You are likely to do better if you are relaxed, but it's not your job to have fun - that's their job. If I were in your situation, I would plan ahead and practice with the aim of doing a REALLY GOOD job on a small number of important shots, and go with "best effort" on the rest.

 

If you get really nice shots of the dress, the kiss, the couple coming down the aisle, the bouquet toss, the cake-cutting, and the first dance, I bet your clients will be very happy even if the rest of your shots are not outstanding.

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

Dear Lauren Paul and Tim

 

I Shot my first "practice" last Saturday. I was given full reign buy a high class pro. I came up with great shots and had a good time.

 

Lauren get a separate speedlite and give us some more details on your equipment.

 

Good Luck,

 

Larry Schaefer

[dave_yuhas]

Lauren - The short answer is you're in over your head. Charging $500, or $50 for that matter, with your level of wedding experience is simply unethical. Unless you showed the couple a killer portfolio. Why not offer to shoot for free, perhaps getting your film and processing expenses covered?

 

>>Do I NEED it if pictures are fine without?

 

How are you going to know if the pictures are fine before they're processed? Contemplating shooting an indoor wedding and reception with the built-in flash is a sign you don't know much about the basics of photography, much less the specialized area of wedding photography.

 

>>I've found classified ads on the web looking for "cheap" amatuer photographer to do budget wedding. I met with a couple today who have seen my photos and the groom sounded like a quite experienced if not professional photographer<<

 

Ask yourself, "Why would a professional photographer place a classified ad looking for a cheap amatuer photographer?" Doesn't make a bit of sense. Unless you've got that killer wedding portfolio...

[anner]

A better flash was the first thing I bought (after a second camera) before I shot my first

wedding (for costs only) for "strangers". I believe if they have seen an accurate

representation of your work (not just the best of the best) and they agreed to pay you,

than you've already got one foot in the door.

 

You can shoot an entire wedding with one lens, but it's really difficult to get great results

with on camera flash. Your on camera flash will only take you about 10 feet.. after that it's

dark abyss. (My 20D says the on camera flash will go 30 feet.. but it certainly isn't

consistently lit for 30 ft.) If you're shooting in a church and an indoor reception hall

(hopefully with airconditioning in August ;-) you will more than likely be greater than 10

feet away from your bride & groom at many points throught the day. With on camera

flash, you'll only illuminate the floor, pews, or whatever's in front of you and potentially

underexpose your subject. Also, if you're doing formal portraits.. you may have to stand

pretty far back, which also reduces the effect and power of your on-camera flash.

 

Anyway, I could go on forever, but I hope that I've convinced you to start shopping for a

flash. I suggest finding one that sits pretty high off your camera, runs on AA batteries,

and has a tilt/swivel function. You may luck out and find a great used flash unit for your

camera at a local camera shop- if not, try the photo.net classifieds, EBay,

bhphotovideo.com, or adorama.com. Make sure you read a few books on flash technique

and try them out as much as you can so that you feel comfortable using them for the

wedding. I'd love to see your work but I don't want to post my email here. So, please

request my email through this photo.net profile and send me the link to your pictures!

Best of luck to you Lauren!

[anner]

" the groom SOUNDED like a quite experienced if not professional photographer and I

would turn over all prints and negatives to him"

 

In all likely-hood he is not a professional, otherwise I agree that he would have

professional photographers as friends who would do the wedding as a favor. It's more

likely that he knows a lot about what questions to ask a professional photographer.

Before I knew anything about photography and was interested in hiring a professional for

our wedding, I researched photography heavily (which is part of the reason why I'm here

now!) Not only did I ask for all the negatives, but I also asked to see an entire set of

proofs from a recent wedding and looked at them carefully for balance, framing, clarity,

posing, and lighting; AND I wanted to know what kind of equipment they used so that I

knew whether or not I could develop the film cheapily. I'm sure that's A LOT more than

most brides even think of doing! So- he may not be professional at all, I wasn't at that

point.

 

I get the feeling that you aren't married... (I'm terribly sorry if I'm wrong)... but that you

HAVE experienced quite a few weddings. When you're the photographer, you may end up

being in charge of the flow of events instead of just capturing them (especially when it

comes to formal portraits) so you'll also want to think about what you're going to say to

people to get a good picture out of them. :-) As I mentioned before.. I'd love to chat with

you off the boards and see your portfolio. I was just like you when I started (only a year

ago!!).. learning by the seat of my pants.. so don't let anyone get you down. If you screw

up, than you screw up and it becomes a big learning lesson and the only one at fault is the

person who didn't hire someone with more experience. Honestly, after you pay for your

film, batteries, backup equipment, flash, gas, time and film spent practicing, etc... you

really won't have earned money from this wedding.. but it will have covered the cost of

your practice and real-life experience. PS. Make sure you have control over the type of

film and where the film is developed. Buy GOOD (professional) film and pay for GOOD

(professional) developing- it can make a BIG difference.

[steve_levine]

I would think that in most cases, that you do need a flash at a wedding. And that you need a much higher guide number than an on board pop-up flash offers. Also it is wise to use some sort of flash bracket to raise the flash above the lens axis.

 

 

Shoot a test roll to determine the best settings for SS, Fstop & flash. Then as you shoot, check your settings before each exposure. This eliminates the most common failures(wrong settings).

 

I would strongly suggest having a 2nd camera set up identical to the primary one, including using the same film. And have this near you as spare tire. If the main camera has a failure to fire, you will look and feel foolish trying to diagnose this, as the bridal party marches down the aisle.

 

Be prepared to work hard, and have things out of your control! Weddings are like any other job, experience and training are needed to learn how. Your 10th wedding will look much better than the 1st 9,and so on. As long as you can find a few dozen clients to "learn on", this will work our fine.

[photoreu]

"If you screw up, than you screw up and it becomes a big learning lesson and the only one at fault is the person who didn't hire someone with more experience"

 

Sorry but I completely dissagree with this. Most clients don't know all that goes into wedding photography. It's pretty easy to convince someone you're an awesome photographer with nice landscapes and pretty pictures of flowers. If you've been shooting these kind of pictures for 5 years and they look great, it doesnt really mean much if you've never shot a wedding or used an off camera flash. It's the photographer's resposibility to be honest about their experience (which I beleive Lauren was). The problem is, a lot of new photographers "dont know what they dont know." I'm sure that was true for everyone here at some point.

 

Anyway, not trying to be discouraging. I'm certainly not a newbie hater (I'm pretty new also). But you really need to have a solid understanding of the technical side of photography, let alone the logistics of shooting a wedding. I'd also reccommend assisting to learn these skills. If the wedding is this August, you better get busy studying! Contact a bunch of local photographers in the area and find out if any of them need a free assistant next month.

 

Ok and to answer your question, the little pop up flash is weak, very close to the lens axis (red eye, possible shadows from bigger lenses/hoods) and generally just a really bad idea. You also more than likely wont have a good low light AF assist without an accessory flash, which means it may be hard to focus in low light (not sure what camera you're using). So definitely get a good flash. That was also the first new peice of equipment I bought before doing a wedding. I dont like using it much.. but it's a necessity in certain situations.

 

You've got a month to learn and I think you can do it! Just keep studying and see if you can tag along for a few weddings. Prepare all you can!

[paul_sokal___dallas__tx]

Lauren, even as a non-paying member, you can post a limited number of pics. Why don't you put some up for us to enjoy? I did my first wedding solo, as a gift. Many of the pics were good, a couple of them were really good-not great, but boy am I a lot better now. If only I knew then what I know now. If you give us more info about your equipment, the venue when you get to see it, etc. the people here can be more helpful. But definitely get that flash and practice, practice, practice with it before the big day. And are you getting paid in advance? I'd at least ask for enough to cover the film and processing. Best of luck.

[nstock]

Please get a copy of a book on flash photography and read it. You will need a flash that is not that pop up deal with the camera since flash falls off at the inverse square of the distance from the camera. The higher the guide number (brighter the flash) the further away you can shoot effectively.

 

The flash bracket will improve the look of the flash image by putting shadows down and behind the subject. It also reduces and/or eliminates red-eye. Furthermore, if you have a flip type bracket (we use the Stroboframe Pro RL) the flash will stay over the lens regardless of whether you shoot vertical or horizontal.

 

This is real important since most wedding photos of 3 ppl or less are vertical.

 

If you are shooting digital get that flash unit and the bracket and go out and test shoot. If you are shooting film do the same...

 

Good luck and ask more ??'s

[picturesque]

Not only do you need to buy a second camera, you need to get a back up for all the important pieces of gear--especially flash and lens. Read the many threads on this forum for beginning photographers. You may need a tripod. Find out the church rules regarding photography.

 

Whether to be worried or happy is up to you and your particular personality. It takes all kinds. Take your pick. You're either going to make it or not, so do as you would anyway.

 

If you think your pictures are fine without an external flash, then again, I would say, it's up to you whether to get the external flash (you have to have a backup though). However, most pro wedding photographers don't depend on the pop up for all the reasons mentioned by the folks above. "Will it make a photo better?"--that is purely subjective. Professionals will say, "Yes." What do you mean by "better"?

[laurenm]

Wow! so much for being informed when someone responds to my posting, Thanks Anne, for all your off-the-board advice. It will take me some time to respond to all the response, but first I do want to say that I am VERY well aware of what I don't know which is why I am here. I agree that the groom is prob not a professional, though also, he is from England so his contacts would not be around here anyway. I have made any potential clients WELL AWARE of the fact that I am very new at this and plan to have a contract also stating so. So we will both have it in writing. It seems there are many people hunting for Budget photographers which is why I thought it would be a good way to learn. Just look at Craigslist.com in your local area and I'm sure you will find a couple of ads for such. For example another guy I have been in touch with wants to pay $300. It is a 4 hr event with only 50 guests he just wants 150 or so shots taken (though I would prob do more for practice) with "some" goods ones as the result. What I would be charging would only be to cover costs and maybe some travel and meeting time, but I'm not making any profit, and as long as the client is well aware of all this I don't see it as unethical. Also, by fun, I know I should not have fun, but what I meant was that if I am more relaxed and concentrate on what I love to do as I do at family parties, the shots should come out better than if I stress about what I may not know. I plan to spend the next month practicing and concentrating on what I am doing. I will figure out how to post one picture at a time, though as I said to the guy who saw my work the other day and as some of you have said, anyone can have a few nice shots, so it doesn't really say much. I showed him a whole album I had just taken of one party. Out of 132 pics, I threw away 23 and the album was what I had left, they were not all good, but I think a good representation of what 100 or so of my shots look like.

[laurenm]

here's my attempt at posting a photo

[laurenm]

here's my second attempt at posting a photo

[anner]

Here's a courtesy resize for the forum..<div></div>

[laurenm]

Thanks Anne!!! You're my angel! Just wanted to mention, kissing photo was the bride's (my cousin) favorite and she liked most of my better than her pros. My sister paid $4,000 and didn't have one shot that wasn't blurry. So for someone on a budget, with an untrained eye, I think I can provide some nice clear pictures and make sure to get the key ones that some professionals seem to somehow "forget"

My camera is Nikon N55 with lenses: 70-300mm f4-5.6G and 28-80mm with f3.3-5.6G I do plan to get another camera and flash soon to practice before wedding which I don't even know if I have job yet. Anyone in northern Mass, southern NH want an assistant?

[paul_sokal___dallas__tx]

Lauren, you might check to see if there's a camera shop in your area that rents equipment to see if you can get a 70-200 VR. It's much better than the 70-300G (I know because I've got one, the G that is) and you can hand hold it in dark churches. It's a great lens for weddings.

[laurenm]

Hi Paul, thanks, at the risk of sounding dumb, what do you mean by "you can hold it in churches" and also, what makes that lens better? and isn't something that would have made these shots better?Thanks again I was thinking everyone had better friday night plans than me

[rich_taylor____mequon__wi]

Lauren,

 

Your energy and apparent interest in what you're doing will serve you well. You might not have all the gear you "should" have right now, but it sounds as if you possess everything else you need to succeed.

 

BTW, the VR (vibration reduction) lens that Paul mentioned has internal mechanisms that enable you to hand-hold the lens at slower shutter speeds than you would ordinarily be able to use and still obtain fairly sharp images. In a dimly lit church where no flash is allowed, that can make a big difference. Some people can naturally hand-hold at slower speeds than other people. It's a physical thing, and can be improved with practice. It becomes more challenging when using a long focal length at a slow shutter speed. In that case, only a tripod will do, or a VR lens. In general, it should allow you to slow down to the equivalent of gaining two extra stops. Your mileage may vary. If you were shooting at 2.8 at 1/60th and your meter indicated that you were underexposed, you wouldn't be able to open up any more because 2.8 is your fastest aperture. But, you can slow down the shutter speed to accomplish the same thing. You can do this with any lens, but you risk blur. With the VR lens, however, the lens compensates for shake and lets you slow down to 1/30 or 1/15, or more (depends on you) to get a proper exposure.

 

It's a large and heavy lens and it is not inexpensive, but if it's at all possible to get your hands on one, I agree that it would be very useful. There are places that rent via mail, but I'm not sure who. A google search would probably do it. Good luck! You'll do fine.

[laurenm]

Thanks Rich for the advice and kind encouragement. I plan to study up a lot as my one photo class went over my head as does most technical talk, but I am an intelligent person and can digest it if I try. I saw your photo posted for critique and from an untrained eye, I thought it was beautiful and didn't think at all of the mushroom thing till I saw the other posts. I'm sure the bride loved or will love it, which gets back to my point that I think there is a little niche for the beginning photographer in that many people don't care about artistic shots with blurred effects. They just want some nice clean cut shots of their wedding day, not that yours isn't artistic, just that she probably sees it as a beautiful shot with beautiful background, not a mushroom on her head. Thanks again for your advice and kindness, I'm sure I'll be posting a lot more in the future and will be in touch.-Lauren

[rich_taylor____mequon__wi]

Thanks, but it wasn't my photo. I was commenting on the image and wrote about the mushroom. I think it was posted by "Timber."

[laurenm]

LOL!!!! Well, anyway, still makes my point