B&W in digital

[sfbk]

Hi;

I am relatively new to digital photography and would like to learn

from more seasoned people here. My question is;

There are some digital models e.g Sony DSC V3, which offer a black &

white and sepia pictures; what does this actually mean? is it like

taking a B&W picture when you use a film with a convetional camera?

I would like to know this since I do quite a bit B&W photography with

a regular 35mm camera.

Thanks in advance.

[kbreak]

Don't listen to the bells and whistles added by the advertising crew to sell the cameras, EVER.<BR>Always always and forever always shoot it in color and convert it into B/W afterwards. <BR><BR>Trust me, it can't hurt to do so.<BR><BR> Use PS to Desaturate the colors then, when you've done a few, start with Brightness/Contrast till the B/W looks OK, then start using Levels, then play with Curves.<BR>

[john v.]

I think what Kevin is getting at is that if you shoot in any of the black & white modes, you're

stuck with black and white. If you later decide the picture would have been better in color,

you can't go back - unless you physically go back and reshoot the scene in color mode.

Besides, it so easy to convert a color picture to black and white (or sepia) on a computer.

 

However, as far as NEVER using the black and white mode, I think there are exceptions.

When I shot this picture of a train station, I knew there was no way it would look good in

color. So I shot it with the color mode on my G2, with no worries about losing a possible

color photo.<div></div>

[jonsjons]

shooting in color and converting later will allow you to choose and adjust the different channels (R,G,B) in creating your B&W image. this gives you a lot more control than just shooting in B&W. it's more or less like shooting B&W film with different colored filters....only you don't have to decide at the point of exposure; you can tweak the settings all you want until you like your image.

 

i'm just starting to play with this myself...so maybe somebody else can fill you in on the details.

[dan_brown14]

I'm posting three images that are 1:1 crops from my Oly C-7070. One is B&W, one Sepia,

and one color, each are shot using just the camera selection, not manipulation in PS, etc.

The color files are about 3.6MB, Sepia are 2.7MB, B&W 2.4MB, so there is some memory

savings. Another benefit is that the camera monitor displays color, B&W sepia during

shooting so you get to see how it will look in monochrome. I sue the B&W mode quitte a

bit.<div></div>

[dan_brown14]

Oly C-7070<div></div>

[dan_brown14]

Oly C-7070<div></div>

[kbreak]

So if you'se shoot color, you have more options later.<BR>end of story<BR>

[phule]

I think there /is/ something to be said for visualizing a scene and seeing it in B&W on the lcd. If you're used to shooting a lot of B&W you may already do this in your head. But there are those that lack experience "seeing" in B&W and therefore would benefit from seeing it that way on the LCD (even if it is just a limited B&W mode).

 

Also, there are a great many scenes that could be shot first in B&W and then again in color providing both the visual help in B&W and the full color to play around with later in photoshop. Unless switching modes on your camera involves three back flips and a hand-spring, that method may appeal to you. (Obviously this doesn't work with every scene).

 

A few cameras allow shooting in a RAW format but will display for you a B&W image on the LCD. You still have all the color information for post-production work but can preview the image in B&W on the LCD. This, for me, would be the best solution of all.

[andrew robertson]

Yes, shooting in color and converting to B&W later offers you something B&W film never

could: an infinitely variable set of color filters that can be applied after the exposure. The

control offered by shooting in RAW in color and converting to B&W later could never be

matched in film, and could only be roughly approximated if you bought many dozen gels.

[jcuknz]

I too also always shoot in color and convert later but I was told that working in B&W mode gave a higher resolution. The person was using a Nikon 5000 and it might just apply to that camera depending on how a camera is programmed to forget about color in B&W mode.

[dan_brown4]

And, saving tasks for post-exposure is no panacea. As much as possible, I prefer to get

the image at exposure-time and keep the computer time to a bare minimum.

[bill_fouche]

I believe that, if you are serious about making a B&W image that is as good as it can be, then ALWAYS capture it and record it in color, and better still, use only RAW format. Kevin and Jonathan are right that you have far more flexibility if you convert to B&W using post-processing software. Why should you rely on the arbitrary creative choices made by the camera engineers? Color filters and remixing the color channels are just the beginning of the options available after the fact. You will learn more as time goes on. It is true that it takes more space to save a color file on your CF card. But you can always buy a bigger card or an extra one. You can rarely go back and recreate the moment you once captured. Few feelings are worse than looking at an image months after the fact and realizing that some creative option that now seems ideal for it (and that I did not know about months ago) is beyond my reach because of a choice you made in the blink of an eye at the camera. For example, although not something I would turn to often, here is an approach using "lab color" mode in Photoshop that can make for dramatic B&W conversions:

 

http://www.gormanphotography.com/bw_conversion.pdf

 

And that is the beginning. If you are new to digital and plan to invest the time to do it right over time, don't limit your options now. Shoot color. Shoot raw. Five years from now you will be awfully glad you did.

[rmdavis]

I think at one point Kodak had a digital Monochrome camera, which allowed them to get much higher resolution per megapixel, and for cost, by eliminating color. Did anybody ever pursue this marketing strategy other than them?

[kbreak]

Well as far as shooting for money, if the client wants B/W and then later asks for it in color... it only took the one time for me.

[byronlawrence]

YOur questions..

 

It means that the camera takes the picture then desaturates it and saves a jpeg image that is in b/w or sepia toned on the memory card.

 

it can be compared to b/w in film but it definately isn't the same. the dynamic range of digital is much more limited (on the highlights side) than film (I mention the highlights side because when considering shadows on digital some poeple will argue about how much total dynamic range they can get, and I don't want to start a debate). Also depending on the type of b/w film you use the results will be different than digital.

for me b/w is fine in a good digital camera, but as you can see from my photos, I am not too picky about quality sometimes.

 

I use the B/W mode (rarely with sepia toning) mostly for situations when I don't want to shoot RAW, I don't want to worry about color balance, I don't think colors in the subject matter add anything to the photo, and when light is limited to the point were I will want to bump up the ISO to 800 or maybe even 1600.

 

hopefully this also helps, Good luck.

[dan_brown4]

I might add that when I shoot B&W mode, I use a "MyMode" set up with ISO 400, flash off,

aperture priority, pre-set manual focus, pre-set focal length (35mm, eqv.), sound off,

monitor off, etc., that gives me a particular camera handling and result I like. Kind of like

the old street-shooting rangefinder mode, if you will. Other than that, I shoot color, max

resolution, and dork with it in PhotoShop, etc.

[andrew robertson]

Shooting in B&W mode does not offer higher resolution. Color data is reconstructed for

each pixel from the Bayer pattern, but brightness is not.

[jimmcnitt]

Abid:

 

If shooting in B&W is what you want to do, Google some reviews for the Nikon Coolpix

8800. My understanding is that, unlike most other digicams, when set to full

destaturation (B&W) the 8800 uses the memory normally allocated to color information to

increase the amount of picture detail in the B&W capture. --jim