favorite C41 kit

[jtk]

What's your favorite C41 kit and where do you get it in the US?

 

I'd prefer liquid chems if that's available...hate mixing dry stuff.

And I don't want abbreviated chemistry...don't need to shorten time at

expense of quality and longevity.

[mikeseb]

I have limited experience with the Photocolor C-41 kit, which I use in my Jobo to process C41

B&W films from Ilford and Kodak. I have been quite satisfied with it.</br>

 

You can find it <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?

O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=245406&is=REG">here at B&H Photo.</a>

[david_starr3]

I use the Tetenal 5 liter kit. It's liquid and very consistant. I get mine from B&H.

[glen peterson]

Michael,

 

I have a question, Why would you process c41 B&W film yourself? It seems like it would be easier, and cheaper to use regular B&W film and processing for that purpose. For color film, I can understand.

[jtk]

I'll give Tetenal a try.

 

Glen, I don't shoot C41 B&W. This is for color negative :-)

 

Currently my B&W is Neopan @ 800 in Emofin (more Tetenal!).

[rowland_mowrey]

Guys;

 

I posted a previous response to a similar question here. About 10 years ago, Darkroom Techniques magazine published a senitometric comparision of the results from 6 kits available for C41 back then.

 

It showed clearly that not all processes were created equal.

 

Both Kodak and Fuji release their film according to results from their own processes and probably cross license the details so that the results are nearly identical in either. Beyond that, I don't know, but I hope for the best for you all using a non-EK or non-Fuji process.

 

The results in that article were pretty sad for some mfgrs kits.

 

Good luck.

 

Ron Mowrey

[mikeseb]

Glen:

 

I bought the C41 kit to process C41 color, but on a lark shot a couple of rolls of the C41 B&W

and decided to try it in the Photocolor. I was quite pleased with the results.

 

Not sure about the cost breakdown. The kit cost around $25 and I should be able to process

around 6-10 rolls of film in it (one shot use in the Jobo) so that's pretty cheap in my view. As

I said my experience with this is limited.

[h._shafi]

I second the recommendation for the Tetenal 5 liter kit. The only quirk might be the need for a 2 minute pre-rinse that I found to work better for me. I bought the kit from Adorama.

 

Good luck!

 

-Haz

[Ed_Ingold]

All of the film I processed with Photocolor kits suffer from silver left in the emulsion after fixing. This makes it impossible to scan using Digital ICE (hence, a lot of spotting is needed) and seriously affects the color balance. This is a common problem with all kits using a combined bleach-fixer (Blix). I can't comment about the color step, since I haven't tried to re-bleach the film.

 

The best kit is probably one you assemble from genuine Kodak components. Unfortunately, neither Calumet nor B&H will ship them, but possibly Adorama will. You need to control temperature within 1/4 deg Celsius for the color development.

 

Unless you have enough film to use up the color developer (one-shot recommended), you are better off using a local processor with Fuji Frontier machine.

[rowland_mowrey]

Edward;

 

Your answer is interesting, as I get some of my C41 and E6 kits shipped from Calumet with no problem.

 

Ron Mowrey

[jtk]

The 1/4 degree C piece is there to prevent home/studio processing. It's not valid. The temp sensitivity is comparable directly to good B&W.

 

By processing one's own film one gets the services of an expensive technician who cares about the images (onesself). One's goal is clean film with no minilab scratches. One may miss chatting with Walmart clerks, but there's always McDonalds...

[rowland_mowrey]

John;

 

Control of temperature in color is essential if you want good results. It is far more critical than it is for B&W. I can process B&W from 68 - 75 degrees, and with proper agitation and time get a good negative, but color must be held to within the time, temperature, and agitation ranges specified. If you don't, you will get inferior results.

 

Ron Mowrey

[jtk]

Certainly it's common for labs to keep temps in a 1/4deg C range, but as I understand it (correct me from experience), absolute temp is only crucial in C41 for the developer.

 

As I understand it, temp sensitivity and risk of cross-over is reduced by pre-soak because that equalizes absorption rates of layers to the developer.

 

Does that seem correct?

 

***In 16oz Nikkor tanks and various giant machines I've run virtually everything but Kodachrome and Tetenal C41 kits (E-3, E-4, E-6, C22, C41)...maybe I'm being overconfident about Tetenal kits ?

 

Please set me straight from your experience.

[rowland_mowrey]

John;

 

You are correct. The color development step is critical to within the tolerances stated otherwise you risk crossover and speed loss/gain between layers resulting in color shifts.

 

A pre-wet is essential to achieve uniform development times with the short C41 process time.

 

You can use a wider temperature range for the bleach and fix, but you stand the chance of silver retention if you drift too low. Those limits are much wider than for the developer. However, you still have to be careful that you do not reticulate your film due to an abrupt temperature change.

 

You also stand a chance of silver retention if you use some of the bleach-fix or blix solutions popular in some kits.

 

Ron Mowrey

[jtk]

Ron, what's your opinion of Tetenal's blix?

 

And does extended blix (say 20%) hurt outcome? Development's over, after all...

 

Is the blix/silver problem you cite more the result of reuse of chem or is it inherent in blix?

[rowland_mowrey]

John;

 

The article I cited above was 10 years old. It showed defects in both development and blixing. I have no recent experience with any other C41 chemistry except Kodaks.

 

The problem with a blix is that C41 compatible films from EK and Fuji contain DIR couplers and high iodide. This makes the bleaching and fixing of silver and silver halide in a stable blix very difficult.

 

The blix decomposes, or it loses activity otherwise it isn't strong enough to do a complete job of removing silver (see the comment above by a user with that problem).

 

I worked on that problem myself at EK for several years with two co-workers, but we were unable at that time to come up with a viable commercial product and Kodak ended up using a bleach then fix process to insure complete silver removal. Another team completed the work on the bleach then fix sequence as a result of our failure. The only blix we were able to find that worked at the time is the subject of a patent that I have mentioned before. It was devised too late for use in the product and was never commerciallized.

 

Over bleaching can cause problems with oxidation and reduction reactions taking place with the dyes, causing leuco dyes to form. You bleach the dyes out of your film slowly with time.

 

My suggestion is to use the bleach and fix or blix for the required time. If silver is left, you can rebleach and fix, but make sure that your blix or bleach and fix are not exhausted. Some kits can destroy dye, according to posts I have read, but the EK kit is designed to avoid this problem even with mild over bleaching.

 

This is due to the balance of salts and other ingredients in both solutions.

 

You may want to look up the numerous posts on this subject on PN.

 

Ron Mowrey