A percent of sales going to league?

[erabior]

I'm starting up sport shooting youth soccer, gymnastics, martial

arts, etc., and my question is this: I have been advised that it

may be advantageous to give back a percentage of sales to leagues or

private businesses in exchange for the permission to shoot on spec

(in order to keep us in there), what percentage is "customary", or

would be a realistic starting point to negotiate?

[keith_van_hulle1]

In most places, that's called a kickback. Makes sure, in your area, that's acceptable/legal.

[ron_laxton]

Not a kickback if it's going to the organization. I did this for several years, giving 10% of my gross sales. These are non-profit organizations, and use the money for equipment, scholarships, etc. I have gotten my regular leagues to switch over to a different "reward program" that works for both of us. I give them a team 5x7 on an 8x10 plaque instead of a percentage. One plaque for each team's HEAD coach. I often have the head coach purchase additional plaques for his assistants. They are engraved with a "Thank you for coaching our (year) team", and then the association's name. For the local hockey league (14 teams total) I give one coaches plaque per team and one for each team's sponsor. This makes the league look good for honoring their coaches and sponsors, and saves me money and hassles.

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

We donate some framed memorabillia to the club to raffle as it make them more money and costs us less, I only have 3 clubs left that still work on percentage of revenue 10% (normally) most now opt for product.

 

Regards

Mark

[keith_van_hulle1]

Sorry, was a little mislead by the statement about "private business". A league, yes, but it should be classified as a donation. I guess I'm not clear why you need to do this to secure their permission to shoot? Is the activity occurring on private property?

[erabior]

It's not private property, but c.y.a. protocol seems to dictate the securing of permission in order to photograph minors. It is simpler to get the ok of the league officials rather than canvass every parent and coach on every team. There will be fewer parents opposed to having their child's picture taken by some guy if that guy has the permission of the league, and less to remember for the shooter, should he be required to refrain per the wishes of anyone opposed. This is the big city, there's a different attitude out there about photographing children, and I know this first hand. Parents feel more secure figuring the league officials are "vouching" for the integrity of the guy taking pictures of their kids. The acceptance of my presence is all in how it's perceived by the parents. As far as why a "kickback" would be necessary, these leagues are non-profit, that's how they buy the cones, nets, etc., for soccer. In a private martial arts studio, the percent of the take has a direct bearing on obtaining, permission, since competition among shooters is so fierce. The newbie needs to gain an edge without compromising the integrity of a shooters wage. A "foot in the door" type thing.

[bob_p.__new_jersey_]

I don�t have the answer but it raises additional questions. Is permission from league or players EVEN NEEDED if you are shooting and selling shots from 1) a town recreational game, 2) a �select team or AAU team� game, 3) a private school game, or 4) a college game? AND, if the league or school gives permission, do you need the same from players?

 

Bob.

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

We always secure league comitee approval prior to shooting any events with minors involved. We have some pretty strong privacy laws here in Aust and all images on my site are password protected unless I have permission otherwise.

 

As far as kickbacks are concerned I preffer to think of this as more of a commercial arrangement and to partner with the various organisations helping them out to grow the club by way of product raffles or in some cases a percentage of revenue.

 

My suggestion is to get a pretty good contract in place with the club or organisation prior to commencing with any work as it keeps things cleaner and show professionalism.

 

My shooters are very identifiable in the uniform and all carry committee members contact numbers when ever shooting as well as signed ID which has approved club consent and comittee contact numbers should any parent object. We always respect the wishes of any parent or care giver and follow the codes of conduct laid down in our contracts and the clubs constitution.

 

regards

Mark

[dave_nelson___atlanta__ga]

Wow Mark, some great ideas in that post. I hope you don't mind if I steal your ID badge with contact info idea.

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

Not at all Dave, I'll email you a copy.

 

Rgds

Mark

[andyjonesphotography]

Mark<br><br>

 

What kinds of product do you offer the clubs, group/team pictures ?<br><br>

 

Any chance of getting a copy of the contract you use?  I'm about to contact some local clubs and need to get my act together.<br><br>

 

Andy<br><br>

[erabior]

Thanks guys, I have a much better idea now.

[daniel_smith6]

Couch it any way you want, having to give them payment to shoot is always a kickback. Doesn't matter if it is non profit or Central American cops or customs agents of the local little league soccermoms. If they request or require payment to shoot it is a kickback. Nothing more than a lowlife form of bribery for access.

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

Daniel yep it's a kick back, but like everything else it's almost expected now.

 

Some examples are selling your picks through smugmug etc take a percentage.

 

Anything manufactured goes through a distribution line with every step taking a cut.

 

Simply price of admission it just needs to be done on the up and up. School photograghy has been done this way for as long as I can remember why should sporting groups be any different.

 

Regards

Mark