red_jenny Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Has anyone had a problem with bogus "second chance to purchase" messages on a certain famous auction site? I placed a big bid on a large format camera, only to be out-bid by someone else. Then, when the auction was over, I received three email messages offering to sell me the camera for my bid price since supposedly the auction winner was not able to complete the transaction. The problem was that the three messages came from three different people, each claiming to be the owner of the single camera in question! And of course they (over-)emphasized that I would be "protected" by various ways, that that I should not respond to their emails using the ebay message system but should instead contact them directly. Note that the auction site was careful enough to include a standard warning about such situations in their message, but who reads the boilerplate? Something to watch out for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_britton Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 I've had the same thing happen to me, however, I received an email from the actual sellers address. I bought a lens from this guy for $40.00 or so. I thought that he may have been shill bidding. I remember the auction ending with someone having agreed to pay a higher price and then somehow welched. I was notified that I have agreed to pay my highest bid as my bid was the next highest one. This had irked me a bit, but I went ahead and paid. The rest of the transaction went well, arrived a week or so later and was in good shape. Ended up being a happy ending. Frank Britton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_keenan Posted June 25, 2005 Share Posted June 25, 2005 Are you referring to Ebay? Why do you refer to "auction sites?" Is there more than one site where folks go to buy and sell? Have you had this problem on more than one "auction site?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_jenny Posted June 25, 2005 Author Share Posted June 25, 2005 Another point to remember: as a general matter in auctions, if you are out-bid, you cannot be held to your bid at a later time should the winner back out of the deal. Similarly, the seller is under no obligation to sell to the second-highest bidder if the first-highest bidder fails to pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirteenthumbs Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 I would have fowarded the second chance emails from others to ebay's fraud department without second thought. I bid on a recent auction, had the high bid, less than my maximun, but did not meet the reserve which was more than my maxium. The seller sent me a second chance offer for my bid amount. I accepted and recieved 5 graflex wood 8x10 film holders. 3 need reglueing at one or two joints, 2 needed door tape repair, 3 need exterior refinishing, 2 are very good. 1 may be too old to use regularly but 3 or 4 will be good to go for a long time and at $70 for all 5 not a bad deal. Only accept second chance offers from the origional seller sent via the ebay system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry_long Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 I too was offered to buy as the second highest bidder for my highest bid but, I turned it down. Also, once I was sent an email stating I was the highest bidder but didn't meet the reserve price by about $7.00 or $8.00 and if I was willing to meet the "quoted" reserve price I could have the item. Again, I turned it down. In fact, I didn't respond to either email...keeping in mind the fraud protection blurb put out by ebay. I recommend you take the same action...do not respond to the emails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razzledog Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Hi Red. Funny you should mention this thread! I have just sold one of my cameras on Ebay with a genuine bidder paying right away. 24hrs later I received an email from another high bidder wanting to know had I sent a 'second chance offer'? Of course I had not. The thing that puzzles me is surely the email address would be different, or are they disguised as 'message from ebay member'? Blimey, why don`t these bogus fellows get a real job and concentrate on getting an honest buck? I think Ebay may have to reconsider the 'second chance phony offer' idea, as this is preposterous! Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_ellis16 Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Assuming that you're referring to ebay but for some unknown reason prefer to call it "a certain famous auction site" rather than simply using its name, I've always thought it was perfectly legitimate to contact the second highest bidder if the first one falls through. I've done that once myself as a seller and when I've been the losing buyer I've contacted the seller and offered to buy if the high bidder ends up not buying. That's not to say that in your particular situation or some of the others mentioned here there wasn't something funny going on but the basic practice of offering to sell to the next highest bidder when the high bid fails is legitimate. At least I've always assumed it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee hamiel Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Simply ask all three of the "sellers" to provide additional pictures of a unique aspect of the item. If you do do a second chance offer only do it through ebay's site & use paypal with the guarantee aspect. Do not do a direct sale as you will have no recourse. Like Brian - I have had people back out of an item or not come through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikos peri Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Yes. One bid of mine garnered EIGHT of those "second chance - don't contact me through Ebay" mails. Most of them are as well written as the Nigerian mail scam. The thing that really amazes me...<p> Does ANYONE actually fall for these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_keenan Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Ebay reported revenue in the first quarter of this year of over $1 billion with incredible growth rates both US and international. They now have over 148 million members using the system to buy and sell items. The Company is a worldwide phenomenon. I chuckle when I read posts that refuse to use the name "Ebay" and instead refer to some "auction site". Is it some sort of personal protest? Are they still waiting for the Sears catalog to arrive?...I mean some large Chicago based retailer catalog of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_fromm1 Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Tom, did you mean K-Mart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedharris Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Another point, one of the things I find interesting about eBay, especially in the large format world is that, on average, you will find the prices direct from Jim at Midwest to usually be about the same for common items as the prices you pay on eBay. Sure there are great bargains to be had from time-to-time and sure if you have patience and get lucky you will find them. But, if, for example, you want a used 150 Apo Symmar, call Jim, buy it from Midwest, get a guarantee and return privilages, and you are not likely to spend much different than eBay day in and day out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_jenny Posted June 26, 2005 Author Share Posted June 26, 2005 Brian -- indeed making a second chance offer to a second-place bidder is legitimate -- as long as you actually own the item you're trying to sell! In my case, the three different people who sent me emails offering to sell the item to me did not actually own the item, but were instead trying to scam me. Had I accepted their offer, I guess they would have insisted on an immediate, non-protected form of payment, and then poof! nothing. No camera, no refund etc. I suppose there are enough buyers who are so happy to have a "second chance" and in such a rush to purchase something that they don't bother reading the standard warning from EBAY EBAY EBAY EBAY about these bogus second-chance offers, they don't bother comparing the name/email address of the fake "seller" to the original real seller (which could be easily spoofed anyway I guess) and they don't think there's anything fishy about the offer which says quite emphatically to NOT respond through the EABY EBAY EBAY ALREADY! system and intead contact them directly at a different email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_smith Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 RE: 'that auction site' We should not name the evil one(s), or risk their wrath. :-) Honestly, not using the actual name has the benefit of not diluting web search results with a long list of subjective postings. Or at least, that's my take on it. Use the name or don't use the name - is there really an issue here where the readers do not know what we actually meant? I don't think so. So why ask why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Sorry Ted, but I picked up a perfectly good 180mm APO-Symmar-S with Compur shutter for $169 on ebay. A prior owner had engraved their name on the shutter housing, but otherwise, it would have been Ex to Ex+ condition. I never saw a deal like that in ANY store. And I use it on my complete, excellent condition, Calumet 4x5 camera that I spent $104 plus $20 shipping on ebay as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_keenan Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 Or you can do like I did today. Buy two camera backs from Midwest via Ebay. I did it to make everybody happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_ellis16 Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 "not using the actual name has the benefit of not diluting web searches . . . " I don't understand. You mean people do searches for "ebay?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_keenan Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 The good Doctor is right. I googled "ebay" and came up with 29,700,000 hits. If we used only code words for the auction site, it would have been a more efficient 28,699,000 hits. Don't argue with Doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve bell Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 I've never had a bogus second chance offer re eBay, only a few genuine ones where the seller had multiples of what he was selling. One I went for was 5 boxes of 25 sheets of FP4+, well in date to 2007. I got a second chance offer as my bid was very close to the winner, and the seller had lots he was auctioning. It was well below shop prices and from a geniune seller, a bargain. I only wish I'd got 5 boxes of HP5+ at the same time, as they seem to have dried up now. I've only once bought an auction item, a Mamiya TLR, outside eBay. I usually bid in the last 30 seconds, but didn't make it back home in time before the auction ended. I emailed the seller explaining this, and telling him how much I would have bid to, a fair price. This was 5 GBP over his reserve, that wasn't reached, so he agreed to sell at his reserve price rather than relist. I drove to to pick it up, it wasn't far from a scenic area in Wales, so I combined collecting it with a days photography. I find that if you wait and don't get impaitent, you can buy eBay items much cheaper than via the main LF dealers, at least here in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter zisson Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 >>I usually bid in the last 30 seconds, but didn't make it back home in time before the auction ended.<< <p> Steve, you should look into snipe software if you buy much on ebay. It automatically posts a bid for you X seconds before the end of the auction. There are several. Just search ebay (there, I said it) for "snipe software". <p> Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger krueger Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 I've gotten some fake 2nd chances too. The tipoff is being asked to respond to a different address. If you think the offer is real, use ebay's "ask seller a question" to verify, NOT any link or address given in the e-mail. For a real second chance the best policy to not encourage shilling is to NEVER increase what you're willing to pay past your final bid. Sadly, a potentially great strategy for getting the most money out of a rare item that only 1 or 2 people might be really rabid to get is to set a ridiculous reserve, and then offer to the high bidder at their highest bid. You've milked every last penny out of the item without needing a second bidder. I'd really like to see ebay show what the reserve was after the end of the auction to at least make this a little harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirteenthumbs Posted June 26, 2005 Share Posted June 26, 2005 <Tom, did you mean K-Mart?> Dan, to be technically correct its the "Sears Holding Corporation". (the future Titanic of retail) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric rose Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I was sent an email from a highjacked eBay account wanting to know if I wanted to purchase an item I came second on. So while most of these scams ask you to reply to an other than eBay email address, this is not always the case. The whole thing seemed fishy to me so I reported it to eBay fraud. That is the only way I found out the account had been highjacked. I have bought a lot of gear on eBay but as it matures I find KEH and Midwest pretty competitive. Even if they are a little more I would rather deal with them. eBay is like an unregulated pawnshop. As long as you are willing to take the risks and the price savings warrant this risk taking, then it might be worth it. I find the differential to small now to bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_smith Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 >"not using the actual name has the benefit of not diluting web searches >. . . " > >I don't understand. You mean people do searches for "ebay?" Ok - let me explain. When I do make posts online I'm usually considering what terms I'm using in my response to make it easier for search engine users to find information. So, I might change some of the wording around to try and make my post useful to others trying to stumble into it. For instance, if I were describing an error on the computer, I'd use the exact wording of the error message rather than saying, "I tried X and it didn't work". By the same token, it's conceivable that one may want to make a post that's difficult to find(targeted to the audience immediately at hand, but not necessarily relevant to future searches). By not including the name of the site and/or otherwise mangling the name like saying eb-- or e-scam-bay, the post itself is harder to include in the search results for something like "scams warning fraud ebay". It's a minor thing. I'm sure I'm probably the only one who thinks of such things anyway. As for the Doctor bit, my id on most sites is just simply drsmith. Note that it's in all-lower-case letters. I'm not claiming to be a DR. in any sense - it's just the way the initials come out and photo.net wants a first/last type of entry, so there happens to be a space in there. Not everyone in the world wants to use their full name. Ok - glad to have cleared all that up. In retrospect, I'm not sure it was worth typing out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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