A dispute concerning start time

[mike_keegin]

Recently we shot a wedding where the bride was angry at us for being an hour late. She was in such a snit

that we had to show her the paperwork on the spot (the written start time - her handwriting) so the

alledged error could be cleared up. It seemed to be cleared up by her change in attitude and the wedding

went on without any further problems. A couple of weeks later we were emailed by the bride regarding

the incident: she now blames us for ruining her wedding by not getting the all important photos of the

groom getting ready and wants us to smooth things over by furnishing her with all the prints we offer in

our most expensive package (she had the least expensive package). She also wants complimentary

retouching done beyond the customary retouching a photographer normally does in today's digital world.

This retouching includes getting rid of background decorations which were put up under her supervision.

Before I continue please make note of this fact - she has not received her pictures yet!! Finally, she has

created a no-win situation by telling us that she expects her prints to be perfect (a largely subjective

thing). We have considered some options: One - refunding her money and keeping the pictures (we don't

want to subject ourselves to subjective criticism by a client who obiously is trying to shake us down); Two

- having her sign for her pictures when she gets them (if she refuses to sign even though the pictures are

exquiste, then what?) Our contract favors us - it does not put us in a vulnerable position. Since we have

moved to this area two years ago, our reputation as the go-to photographers is steadily building and we

do not want to hampered by what we feel is a shake down attempt by this bride. Any feedback will be

appreciated. Thank-you.

[ryan mcgill - trm photo st]

Get a lawyer to send a firm letter stating the contract...

[timberwulf]

Do you already have 100% of the payment?

[jmichaelc]

Meet with her when you deliver the final product and simply bring your contract with you. Does it say that you will present perfect photos and remove distractions? Of course not........simply point to your contract for protection and fulfill the initial agreement. By all means deliver the product and do not withold. Demand payment as specified in your contract. You think that your protecting your reputation by trying to help but it actually works against you....the more you do at this point with this type of person, the less respect you will gain at the end. Re-establish your respect by remaining firm to your initial agreement and make it clear who is at a misunderstanding. Leave it at that, there is nothing else you can do to make such a situation better.

[ellis_vener_photography]

some people always want something for nothing. You run into this in every business.

 

"refunding her money and keeping the pictures (we don't want to subject ourselves to

subjective criticism by a client who obiously is trying to shake us down)"

 

You can't keep her from talking trash about you no matter what you do.

 

"having her sign for her pictures when she gets them (if she refuses to sign even though

the pictures are exquiste, then what?)"

 

"Then what?" indeed. Have you been paid in full? If so deliver exactly what you promised

and were contracted for, nothing more and nothing less.

 

consider this. You probably are not the only people she tries this with. And people who

know her either know this about her or are like her. If the latter case, then you don't

wantthem as customers anyway do you? I did she use a wedding consultant or planner?

what is her take on things?

 

It is your business of course and you should do what your intutition tells you to do: you

know more about the general situation and this specific situation than any of us ever will,

but my advice (for what it is worth) is to delveer wexactky what was contracted for. If she

wantsextra services she needs to pay for them.

 

On the other hand if your compositions make it seem like some floral arrangement is

growing out of her or her Aunt Matilda's (did you know Matilda is the name of the

Germanic goddess of war?) head or butt I think you have an obligation to fix that becasue

that is your photographic mistake.

[mark_jacoby___raleigh__nc]

You know if you had any kind of business you would run into the same type of customer. It's a shame but we shouldn't be blackmailed or bullied into allowing someone to dictate ho we conduct our business.

 

Keep a good paper trail including e-mails and make notes. If you can't make her happy and she has a lawyer contact you, them hire your own attorney.

 

Just be fair and evenhanded with her in your dealings. I bet the whole thing blows over.

[phillip hurd - atlanta ga]

Sounds like you have the high ground legally.

 

It has been my experience that Bridezilla�s are known to friends and family as just that. One of the first weddings I did on my own was with a Bridezilla who seemed to hate everything I did. I had the same fear you seem to have, �My reputation will be ruined!� (what little it was at the time) I kept thinking this until many months later a Mom called me and asked about photos for her daughters wedding. As a matter of course I asked how she had heard of me. To my astonishment it was from Bridezilla�s mother! I had to ask how that was possible considering the unfavorable venom that bridezilla had spewed about me. The Prospect told me that my troublesome bride had always been like that; - nothing was ever good enough for her. My prospect, as a guest, had been at the wedding, thought I did a good job, and was professional and said that Bridezilla�s mom thought so too! I have since learned to avoid bridezilla�s but also that it takes more than one flakey brides opinion to ruin my reputation.

 

Anyway, I would call the facility that hosted the wedding, ask when she booked the facility. They may or may not tell you but you can also call the DJ, Band, caterer etc. If they booked any of those people before you and gave them a different time than you got likely this bride was trying to scam you. If that was the case I would cancel immediately, and refund her money. If you feel that it was an honest error I still would not budge an inch on the purchase but I would do what was necessary to fulfill the obligations in the original contract. That way you can say in the future that you were professional and fulfilled the contract.

 

Just my 2 cents worth.

[annealmasy]

Apologize profusely that she is not 100% happy. (DO NOT apologize for your own

actions!) Then tell her that while you understand the importance of the shots she is

missing, you cannot be held responsible since you arrived at the time requested. Send her

another copy of the paperwork showing that information, as well.

 

Just continue to be as kind and professional as possible. These are her only photographs,

and if you just keep acting like there's nothing wrong here, she'll eventually catch on and

respond in kind.

 

Just to help make things clear to her, you might want to also say, "Because we understand

your severe disappointment as a result of this miscommunication, we'd like to offer you a

xx% discount on such-and-such package" or "if you are completely displeased with our

services and the photographs we took, we will be happy to issue you a partial refund in

the amount of $xx; of course, we feel that your photographs are lovely and we'd hate for

you to not have any images of your wedding day!"

 

You haven't done anything wrong. And probably she's only acting this way because she's

mad at herself -- after all, it was her error that caused this problem in the first place!

[vladimir_pcholkin___washin]

Since you have a contract with the time when you start working and I assume you have a schedule of her wedding day you can easily prove that you couldn't possibly take getting ready shots. Regarding retouching and such, if it is not in your contract, don't bother. I always try to accommodate my clients, but there is a big difference in a new simple request which I am happy to discuss and absurd demands of a bad client. There is always a chance that one bad apple will try to spoil your reputation. If other people are happy with your services one client will not ruin your business.

[vladimir_pcholkin___washin]

One more thing. I see quite often photogs talking about refunding money to the client even when they've done their work. I will never refund a penny if I worked according approved schedule and produced good work. That's why there are clients who think that they can get away with it. Everybody likes free stuff. I will only refund my client if I was late, or my equipment malfunctioned, or something happened to me and I took all bad pictures(never happened to me). Than it is my fault and as a pro I will take every possible step to compensate my client - from refund to free photography session and prints.

[anner]

Stick to the contract. You did nothing wrong. If she wants extra work, send her a pricelist

for the items she requested. Be polite and thank her for the chance to photograph her

special day.

[rick_helmke]

You are exactly right, she is trying to get as much as she can for no more money and make you feel like it is your fault. Don't go down this road. She is likely doing this with other vendors as well. She has discovered at some point in her life that it works and it is your turn in the barrel. Don't fall for it, don't give away anything under pressure, just deliver what is contracted to the best of your ability. I wouldn't even encourage re-print sales, just put her in the rear view and move on.

 

Rick H.

[mike_keegin]

Wow! Thanks for the great comeback my friends. Yes, we have been paid in full and I

certainly would not have refunded her money AND given her her pictures - no way! I'm not

agreeing with the person who suggested a discount either, because the fault lays with the

bride or her wedding coordinator who should have contacted us regarding a time change, but

I fully appreciate your input nontheless. My wife got a sense of an impending train wreck

during the initial consultation and when we met for the third time and they asked of us: "Are

you drinkers and would you drink at the wedding" it was then that we should have dropped

the relationship with them. By the way - we do not drink. Is there anyone else who would

like to comment?

[craig_gillette]

Scrupulously uphold your obligations under the contract. Deliver as described for schedule and content. Since you arrived on time and performed to schedule and contract, there's really little they can complain about. It's unfortunate that the wedding party failed to update you and revise the contract to reflect the changes of plan but it's hardly your fault. But that doesn't mean that you wouldn't consider additional products or work on an equitable fee schedule either. A bargaining chip she may not have considered, is web exposure, is she really that unhappy with the way her day went? As it was truly exceptional, she could have expected to see her day featured on your site (if released of course) but I guess that's out of the question now....

[david_schilling___chicago_]

I'm in general agreement with everyone else, but.....It's pretty standard practice to reconfirm all the details about start time, venue, etc. a few days before the wedding. Especially since the contract could have been signed months ago and alot of the details could have changed. It's also important to recognize the psychology of brides. She could indeed be trying to get something for nothing but it's also possible that she expected you to "read her mind" and to have anticipated a different start time. Brides can and will be a little different than most every day normal people. If that's the case, it could be related to the dynamics of stress/nervousness that makes the "Bridzilla" shows as entertaining as they are :-)

[timberwulf]

If you've been paid in full, fullfill the contract to the letter. I agree with offering a slight discount on a higher package, but don't refund any of the money for the contracted services.

 

Anne hit it right on the head - don't apologize for your actions, only for the fact that they're upset.

 

Stick to your guns, document everything (if you talk on the phone, send an email right after you hang up reiterating everything that was said on the call), and keep a pleasant helpful attitude. Deliver absolteuly everything promised in the contract in a timely manner with your usual good quality and a smile. :)

[savagesax]

Like David, I always call a few days before the wedding, just to say hi and see if anyhing has changed and if she has any special requests.

[mike_keegin]

Maybe I dropped the ball in not checking in a few days prior to the wedding. We received

a note around that time from the bride where she wrote that she was thinking of having us

arrive an hour earlier but it was not set in stone - she would have the wedding coordinator

call us about it. We had been communicating with the coordinator quite well so we

decided not to second guess the situation. He did not call, therefore we assumed that the

previously agreed upon time prevailed. Incidently, the coordinator admitted his mistake

when we arrived but now will not return any of our calls - it gives us the impression that

someone knew he did a boo boo. We arrived with the confidence a professional could only

have when he knows that everything was done correctly to the best of his ability. We do

give nice little tutti frutties to our customers because it's good for business and doesn't

impact us that much, but we are not willing to be pushed around by a bride who figures

she can take advantage of a cheap opportunity to get something for nothing, either.

[Dave Gardner]

Mike,

 

Tell her to go jump off a bridge. You have to spot these types before you sign them. We sit down with every client and scrutinize them to make sure that we don't run into this same problem.

 

We only work with an exclusive clientele and chose who we will shoot. It's nice to be in a position, not to have to deal with people like that. Remember your self respect. No matter how professional or nice you are to this person....it will not please her. I know about word of mouth...and it does affect your business...but some times you just need to but people in their place.

 

Dave

[think27]

One suggestion for future...

 

I have it in my contract that all changes must be in writing and signed by both parties.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Maybe I dropped the ball in not checking in a few days prior to the wedding-Mike

 

Well, yeah, you did....this is something that you can learn from. Just be honest with the bride and give the wedding coordinator alot of the credit for the misunderstanding while accepting some of the responsibility for the misunderstanding. "Circling the wagons" and getting defensive isn't likely to create a win/win situation....

 

If nothing else, I'm hoping that others on the forum have benifited and learned something from your experience.

[mike_keegin]

Thank you everyone - this forum actually is better than being in the guild; such excellent

reponses. I will take all your feedback and sort it out and then act accordingly. If anyone has

anything to add, please be my guest.

 

Mike Keegin, South Carolina

[patrick_viebey___orlando__]

All good comments. One other to chip in here...

 

I also try to attend the rehearsal, where possible. Don't charge for it (don't guarantee any pictures or include it in contract at all). Don't even really stay for the whole thing, just in-n-out.

 

My mission is to get the 'lay of the land', for the venue (some time to plan picture locations), meet the officiant (make sure I get his rules right), get a quick clue about the other 'players' in the wedding party, and usually hear the final 'who is going to be where when'.

 

I don't do large volumes of weddings, but it makes me feel more comfortable the job will go well. And, in this case, hopefully I would have heard their timelines in real-time and could plan accordingly.

 

Dunno if this helps or not.

 

Me personally, I don't think you're ever going to make her happy, so I'd execute exactly to the terms of the contract, to the extent that I might possible put exactly what was done where into writing. MAKE SURE to document and keep your documentation on what happened, just in case it goes any further (very unlikley, but not impossible).