My evolving lighting needs (will SB-50DX work w/ SB-800?)

[darren_cokin]

Before I get to my queries, a bit of background...

 

I am an amateur photographer, not a professional. But I don't want anyone to

notice that when they see my photographs! I'm always trying to improve my

technique, and take better pictures with the tools I have available.

 

I haven't really focused my attention on any specific type of photography. I've

done landscape work, panoramas, candid / street photography, nature photography,

macroscopic bug photography, Hockney-esque collages, "art" photographs of

beautiful women, etc.

 

When I first acquired my D100 three years ago, I was happy with the pop-up

flash. But when the shadow from the front of my wide angle lens began to bother

me, I bought a SB-50DX. (Great little flash. Recycles fast with those lithium

batteries.) When friends started to ask me to shoot their weddings, I got a

camera flip bracket and extension cord for it. But when friends started asking

for headshots... (I live near Hollywood, what can I say.) ... I noticed I had

a problem.

 

I would encourage my friends to hire a pro, who takes headshots all day, and has

studio lights all set up. But if they wanted something in a jiffy, or didn't

want to spend any money, I would offer to help them out and do the best I could.

But even with the cord to put the flash off to the side, I really felt with

just one flash I wasn't doing as good a job as I should.

 

Flash forward to this weekend... My neighbor throws a hot-tub party, and there

are lots of scantily clad women about. There's one girl wearing black knee high

boots with her bikini that I found so striking, I snapped a picture from behind.

When she turned around and saw me, she struck a pose. I kept snapping, and she

kept posing... Having fun, I took nearly a hundred pictures of her. She loves

them, I think they're amateurish. (I was drunk, using the 18-200 zoom, and with

camera mounted flash.) But, she has agreed to let me shoot her again, in a more

exotic location, and sans the bikini...

 

Next time I'll be careful with my technique. I won't be drunk, or using a

crappy zoom. (I've got 20, 30, and 50mm primes.) I'll put the flash off

camera. But... for really good results, I think I'll need to add light from

more than just one angle...

 

It occurs to me that when I upgrade my camera (whether it be to a D200, D-300,

or whatever), my non-iTTL SB-50DX will no longer be supported. So... if I'm

going to need a new flash anyway, might as well get it now....

 

But, how well will the SB-800 work with the SB-50DX? The SB-50DX does have a

wireless slave feature, but I believe it will only fire at full power in that

mode. If I use it as the master, it will fire a pre-flash before the main

exposure. That can be disabled, but again, it would be locked at full power. I

suppose I could work around that, but it wouldn't be ideal, to say the least.

 

Is the SB-800 smart enough to ignore the pre-flash when used as a slave? I

really don't want to buy TWO SB-800's at this point, so I'm hoping there is a

way to make this work with my old flash... Anyone have any advice on how to set

that up?

 

What else should I get? I'd like a big diffuser or reflector, but I want

something very portable. (Portability is even more of a concern than cost.)

Any suggestions? I've got the Sto-Fen diffuser for my SB-50DX already, and

don't notice much difference with it, as the light is still coming from a fairly

small source.

 

Thanks for any advice!

 

Darren

[Jerry_]

Look for a flash umbrella: bounce the (any flash will do) flash into the umbrella __ the light going back on your subject will be 'pro' in nature and much less harsh than dead on Nikon speedlight 'flash.' Spring for a pair of flash umbrellas and you can have one light a bit stronger on one side and really get good results. (Old Reflectasol umbrellas in silver, or gold, work for portraits....)

[frank_skomial]

"But, how well will the SB-800 work with the SB-50DX?" - not in iTTL mode, since SB-50DX does not have it.

 

You could use older and newer flashes, if connected via PC sync cables, (or triggering remote devices via radio syncing transmitter via PC sync cable on the camera), or in other than iTTL modes.

It has been discussed many times.

[darren_cokin]

<i>not in iTTL mode, since SB-50DX does not have it.</i><br><br>

 

Of course. My camera, a D100, doesn't have iTTL either. But, I was hoping I could at least get DTTL to work...<br><br>

 

<i>Look for a flash umbrella...</I><br><br>

 

I had been thinking along those lines, but am kind of nervous after the warnings that were posted here just yesterday about not using them outside, because they can catch the wind. Can you get similar results with one of those collapsable softboxes, or is an umbrella really the best way to go?<br><br>

 

Thanks.<br><br>

 

Darren

[frank_skomial]

"But, I was hoping I could at least get DTTL to work..." - NO again.

The newer cameras do not have D-TTL at all.

[frank_skomial]

I cannot predict the future, but D200, D70, D50 do not have D-TTL, and most likely D-80, D-300, or whatever ? may not have D-TTL.

 

Use D100 with SB-50DX, and SB-800 with newer cameras.

 

I just discovered that by typing "dee twohundred" was rejected with note: DO Not to speculate on the future cameras, so I did retype with a dash, but you know what I mean.

 

You see Darren, you got me into risky busineess of speculation. (smile).

[darren_cokin]

<i>"But, I was hoping I could at least get DTTL to work..." - NO again. The newer cameras do not have D-TTL at all.</i><br><br>

 

Okay, a few people seem confused, so let me restate my situation:<br><br>

 

I currently use a D100, which supports DTTL flash, and which I am not considering upgrading at this time. I also use a SB-50DX flash, which supports DTTL. I wish to add a SB-800 to the mix, and am unsure if I can use both flashes at the same time, with one or the other connected to the camera with a sync cord as master, and the other as a wireless slave, and still use DTTL mode.<br><br>

 

Will that work?<br><br>

 

Darren

[vivek iyer]

"DO Not to speculate on the future cameras"

 

Yeah, leave that to Nikon themselves while we take a self righteous, upright chat here. :-)

 

Darren, Yes, by all means get an SB-800. Look up the specs, I think it has backward compatibility and would do iTTL with the speculative dx100s.

[Jerry_]

"I currently use a D100, which supports DTTL flash, and which I am not considering upgrading at this time. I also use a SB-50DX flash, which supports DTTL. I wish to add a SB-800 to the mix, and am unsure if I can use both flashes at the same time, with one or the other connected to the camera with a sync cord as master, and the other as a wireless slave, and still use DTTL mode.

 

Will that work?"

 

 

 

If you use two speedlights and a cord to connect the pair, the camera may have to be in 'M' mode and you would have to adjust exposure based on how much light is going on the subject of your session. The D100 instruction booklet should have some info on what you can and cannot connect with the proper Nikon cord.

 

 

 

 

Back to the umbrella(s) __ if you have a gallon milk container, fill it with sand to anchor the light stand/umbrella; and if you have a decent light stand, the wind should not become too much of a problem....but if you are in hurricane force winds, don't plan on putting flash umbrellas up in the breeze. (Indoors is probably better, and if you use peanut flash triggers, your D100 and a couple of flashes into two umbrellas will give you light that is softer than your direct flash results. Again, the camera should be in M mode and you can adjust exposures to your liking.)

[frank_skomial]

SB-800 has everything SB-50DX has and much more, mainly CLS and iTTL.

 

SB-800 will work alone on D100 in DTTL mode, like the SB-50DX does.

 

SB-800 has a back compatibility mode called SU-4 that is specifically there to allow trigerring remotely older flashes. In this mode SB-800 (set to SU-4), will trigger remote SB-50DX, but no TTL of any sort with D100 and SB-800 if set in SU-4. The SB-800 would not control the amount of light output from remote older flash, but it could only trigger.

 

You could possibly use SB-50DX on the camera as master, but to TTL, a Wireless Slave Controller SU-4 may be needed.

 

In order to make 2 incompatible flashes work together, you need to use the lowest common denonimator features. You can use non-TTL auto, Auto Aperture, Manual and have both flashes fire, and you detrmine the exposure parameters.

 

There is much more to it,...Download the SB-800 Manual (.PDF) from Nikon's European site, and all the flash combinations with D100, and with older Nikon flashes, as well as SU-4 mode, are explained.

[darren_cokin]

<i>Download the SB-800 Manual (.PDF) from Nikon's European site...</i><br><br>

 

Thanks for the tip. It's on the USA site too. Lot to it; I'm going to have to study up. <br><br>

 

It just occurred to me that my local camera shop has a huge rental department, and since at this point I only have a 1 day need, that may make more sense than trying to buy a bunch of equipment that won't get used often. <br><br>

 

Their rental catalog is so huge though, and I'm such a novice, what to get is a bit bewildering. I could rent a pair of SB-800's, or strobes by a wide variety of 3rd parties. They probably have someone there that can help me. But if anyone cares to make some suggestions that would be ideal for a novice using a D100, the catalog is here:<br>

<a href="http://www.samys.com/rental05/">http://www.samys.com/rental05/</a><br><br>

 

Darren

[neville_smith]

I have a D300, 2 SB800's and a 50Dx. Following this chat I will shoot the 50 dx into an umbrella, one 800 through a soft box and the 2nd 800 probably with a diffuser from the side of the model. I have tested this and this all triggers perfectly in commander mode and no need for cables. The results are awesome, no light meters needed. Just shoot in A mode not P and have your high sync mode set properly and shoot away. This may be overconfidence but I am shooting dancers tomorrow to test all this in anger - fingures crossed, but a I have feeling the fantastic metering and focusing on the D300 will pull me through.