BIG reception room HIGH ceiling

[tonylarcombe]

I'm not going to be able to bounce, not off the ceiling anyways. I'm shooting

with a 20D, 580EX and LSII, I'm thinking manual 1/30, 5.6, and crank the 580 up

a few notches, does that sound good enough ?

 

Tony.

[bdp]

You lose some of your flash with the LS anyway since it's a diffuser. FWIW: I shoot receptions, high ceilings or not at roughly 5.6-8.0 and a shutter of about 1/20-1/40 so to get the background exposed, if even a little bit.

<BR><BR>

If it's a really large room, you're going to trail off the black pretty quickly unless you have some sort of lighting at each end of the room

[kelvinphoto - arlington, t]

crank up your iso so it's 1-2 stop below meter reading. if meter reading is @f2/2.8, then make sure your camera setting is at f4/5.6.

[annealmasy]

Check out this site:

http://neilcowley.com/light/

[jamie_thomas]

ANNE,

 

That is a cool site. Isaved it so I can reed latter. GREAT LIGHTING! You can't get better than that.

[picturesque]

No, I don't think that is good enough. You're basically just relying on the light coming out of the side of the LS, which ends up looking more like direct flash and less round and soft like the "usual" LS light. Cranking up the 580 a few notches won't do anything because at f5.6, even at ISO 800, you will be hard pressed to crank up enough. If you can't use off-camera flashes, I'd use f4, maybe f2.8 and whatever shutter works for shutter drag, and a Demb Diffuser. I've found it works pretty nicely in the card straight up position and diffuser on in rooms where you don't expect much bounce from the ceiling. Unless you are talking about a room with dark or black walls and ceiling, you do get some bounce off walls, even if the room is big. The shadows aren't as soft, but still, the light is quite nice. Or, if using the LS, I'd use it in the straight ahead position with the dome on. This is still nicer than an on-camera softbox because some of the light still goes out the sides. With the LS, it helps to be able to up the ISO, with the Demb Diffuser, you can usually still carry on with ISO 400. Best would be off camera lights with on camera LS or Demb.

[andreas_hapunkt]

Hi all,

 

I will be having the very same problem in another month's wedding, too, namely dark/warm painted walls and a high dark wooden ceiling (as you undoubtedly will guess down the line, the B & G are friends and I am not a pro).

 

I am not yet what I would call experienced, so I was wondering why a lot of you had been suggesting shutter speeds of, say, 1/15s to 1/40s with neither reference to the actual focal lengths used nor to the minimum flash sync speed. I shoot Nikon and have a minimum flash sync speed of 1/60s - won't I have problems shooting at smaller shutter speeds than that using flash? Also, will the flash freeze the subject enough if I am using focal lengths greater than 15/.../40mm (my concern here is the camera shake)?

I'm sorry if these technical questions seem stupid to you folks, I learning everyday, but just bought my first non-integrated flash (got the SB-800 now).

 

Also, if bumping up the ISO more than 400 or 800 (depending on sensor quality of you camera), won't this be acting against the idea of nice wedding pictures because of the greater degree of noise which you will only get of in PP at the cost of losing sharpness?

 

Many thanks in advance!

 

Cheers, Andreas

[anner]

Even though the ceiling are high... are they white?<br>

<br>

Don't be afraid of bouncing on high ceilings!!! It's much better than bouncing off of a low

ceiling!<br>

<br>

Here's a high, neutral colored ceiling....<br>

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/annetics/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/

2005-11-01%2019.34.13%20-0800/Image-B2BE83B64B5011DA.jpg"><br>

<br>

The reception lighting....<br>

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/annetics/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/

2005-11-01%2019.34.13%20-0800/Image-B2C0FE214B5011DA.jpg"><br>

<br>

and an image captured during the reception (note the darkness above!) with bounced flash

an a white card pulled out...<br>

<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/annetics/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/

2005-11-01%2019.34.13%20-0800/Image-B2C2E41F4B5011DA.jpg"><br>

<br>

That was a 20D with a 580EX as well.... take a few test shots with and without the

lightsphere (white card instead if you want) and see what you like most. I find the

lightsphere works best with lower ceilings.

[anner]

yuck, I was so worried about getting the html right that I totally didn't proof read that..

[picturesque]

Andreas, the flash does freeze your subjects (actually flash duration) so the guideline re focal length/shutter speed does not apply when "dragging the shutter". Read up on this at planetneil.com, the article about on-camera flash, under dragging the shutter. A good rule of thumb for dragging the shutter is to underexpose the background/ambient by at least two stops, for clean, non-motion blurred images. Of course, some motion blur can add some spice to your dancing images.

 

Re the high ISO/noise issue. This is a matter of taste. Some people say Canon sensors exhibit very low noise for the ISO and use ISOs of 1600, even 3200, with or without noise reduction post processing. I personally don't like to go above ISO 800 and even at ISO 400 and 800, try not to underexpose, because this accentuates any noise. I try to stay at ISO 400 and I do use off-camera lighting if necessary.

[picturesque]

What Anne says is true--if the walls and ceilings are white, and the floors as well, you can bounce in pretty high ceiling-ed, big rooms, but I still don't think f5.6 is wide enough.

[jmichaelc]

How to deal with it? High ISO's and large aperatures. I'm limited to what i have with me today being remote but take for instance the below photo post. The top photo is of the natural ambiance of this room taken w/out flash and with a 15mm wide angle (20 on a 1dMII) at +1 EV. OK not the largest room but it is sort of deep and the celings are high vaulted....not the highest ceiling but still vaulted and they are dark wood. Why are so many people afraid of high and dark celings? RAW is the solution to casts. The second image was with a 50mm 1.4 wide open and ISO 3200 in the same room of the same luminance and almost from the same location.... i just moved forward about 20' or so. My flash was at +1 with two stops left . The only lights in the room are candles and two simgle bulb lights hanging in the very back. Notice the window and you can see where the bounce was off the rear wall/ceiling junction. Your speedlights have a lot of light potential, you just have to know how to apply it in conjunction with large aperatures and hi-iso's. I use this method to preserve the natural atmospheric feeling of the room which is hard to achieve with direct flash. Hi-ISO's and large aperatures allows you this ability.<div></div>

[patrick_lockwood]

On real high cielings, I have my assistant hold a monopod with a slaved 580ex, and I just walk around shooting everyone with portrait lighting, 2 to 1 ratio, or thereabouts. But, shoot at 1/60 ( shutter speed is not that much of an issue) ISO 800, and f/4, and your 580ex with TTL and + FEC as needed can handle an amazingly high cieling. Try it.

 

 

Patrick

[patrick_lockwood]

By the way, using a diffuser for bouncing off cielings doesn't make any sense to me, the cieling is the diffuser. I might pull out the white card a bit for racoon eye prevention, and that is it.

 

 

Patrick

[savagesax]

I use extra lights at most receptions as well as formal shots. My favorite lighting is with the use of white umbrellas. This pic was a dark room, wood walls, and I'm not keen on bouncing lights. This pic was from a 13 yr old party this weekend, Resolution sucks because it is so low. But notice how you can see everyone throughout the room.

[savagesax]

Same place a week before, first dance, lighting is behind them. Also makes a great B&W image

[think27]

Please keep images 511 pixels or less and put in a CAPTION in the caption box so your images show in the forum instead of a link.

[savagesax]

Thanks Mary, the images are small, didn't know that one needed a caption! Thanks again for the reply.

[rich_taylor____mequon__wi]

I agree with you, Patrick, that the ceiling diffuses the light, but the LSII being used is designed to bounce with the dome removed. The light reaching the ceiling is not diffused, but the horizontal output (aided by the grooves in the LSII) of light is diffused and helps to fill in the undershadows created by bounce-light.

[ned1]

When I'm scouting out a hall I carry a little gadget that calculates distances ($24 at Home Depot). That plus the guide number tells me if I can bounce safely.

[Gary Naka]

Andreas, if the choice is between getting and not getting a shot, I have no problem cranking up the ISO to as high as I need to. I shot my nieces wedding at ISO-1600 on my Nikon D70 and so did the pro on his Cannon 20D, granted we were shooting the wedding available light (no flash).

 

The average photo will not be blown up beyond about 8x10 and in some cases not on glossy paper, so you don't need to worry about visible noise in a glossy 16x20.

 

Gary