Are We In The Business Of Selling Prints?

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

Mastering the business side of photography may be where the real skill is involved.

[patrick_viebey___orlando__]

Interesting. The short version here is that the business needs to capture $xxxx in order to stay in business.

 

They have taken a 'lo-ball' approach, which minimizes their upfront costs, and 'shares' it back to the folks that want prints.

 

Fundamental to me here is that I'm sure nothing deceptive was done. Folks just don't like the way these guys priced it. But, OTOH, the B&G may not have been able to afford it any other way...

 

Todd- I suspect (given the services you offer) that there's no way they could afford you. You give an awesome amount of value from what you say, but that doesn't affect their ability to actually pay...

[picturesque]

I agree with Lucas, Marc and Jim. However, I believe this is another "no answer question"--whatever works for you and your clients, both in practice and in philosophy.

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

If you are in it soley for photography and creativity you will care very little how much you make. If you are into it for the fulfilment and the money you will be charging some more. If you are highly skilled at photography and you love money even more you will be charging more zealously. All generate images and money.

 

In the market there will be people that each of these disciplines appeal to. If your photography is what you live on you best be making money. In that case devaluation of the trade would be very detrimental.

 

Another drawback is that there is no set standard or set group ocriteria that make someone a pro. There is no benchmark like a card carrying sheet metal or welder journeyman. A possible way to minimize the hacks and incompetents.

 

Man! have I 2 cents(ed) this thing or what? It sure has made me do some thinking though.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Larry Peters info on DVD #4 on the "Digital Portrait Techniques" titled "Pricing for profit" and can be found at: http://www.photovisionvideo.com/productinfo.html

[todd frederick]

I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer...just different ways of marketing. Some I like and some I don't. I don't like a 30 day countdown on the last chance to purcahse prints, for example.

 

I'd like to know what you all are doing with sales plans.

 

What I have done for years, as I mentioned, is to work out a photography plan with the couple, collect the fees before the wedding, provide the couple with the proof prints, proof album, and a fully corrected print-ready DVD.

 

I'm not in the business of making or selling prints. I don't have the time, staff, patience, or interest in doing that.

 

What then is your business plan?

[cjogo]

Just another approach for that studio. We sell the negatives ~~ not the prints. A 4X6 cost 17c --we charge $10, if someone would inquire, but no one buys prints any longer. They will however buy negatives, for about the price of a 4X6 >>> then they are at liberty to make all the prints they wish. Lot easier to unload those negs ~ for our market !

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste]

Todd, I'll be honest, the way this industry works the first people to be discounted is always the photographers in my experience. If people are being bankrupted by it then maybe pay $25 a seat not $45, in general the band make more than me while working half the time and with no outlays, I'm not going to feel guilty about people spending for my services, no one asked them to pay my price, if they can't afford it then there are plenty Uncle Bob's, as I said it's a luxury item. If you want it you pay the going price but as it is not something that anyone 'needs', let them whine somewhere else!

[todd frederick]

Ben,

 

Thinking this over I tend to agree with you. I'll keep on doing it the way I do it, but the client has the choice. I guess what irritated me most was the 30 day countdown!

[lb-]

"What then is your business plan?"

 

make as much money as I can while doing as little work as possible and retire in the next 5 years.

[patrick_viebey___orlando__]

Todd:

 

Dunno if this helps, but the 30 day counter is classic marketing - creating a (false) sense of urgency. Nothin new or unique there.

[rob loxley]

At the other end of the spectrum, I live in a Univesity town where there are a number of studios that will come and photograph your event/dinner/sportsteam/match (etc.) on digital/35mm/MF/LF (as needed) for free, and make ALL of their money out of reprints.

<BR>Maybe if you're selling wedding prints to many parties at weddings then a pricing structure biased towards individual print income is useful/sensible; whereas if you're just supplying the B&G then an all-inclusive package is more appropriate.

<BR>At the end of the day it's a matter of what pricing structure works for you, your type of work and your clients.

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste]

I agree on the 30 day thing Todd, maybe 3 months would be more resonable. Seems to me that 30 days makes sense for portrait customers, after that they've forgotten they even had the session. FOr wedding though it should be more relaxed. Good to see you back here by the way Todd, hope everything is going OK.

[ShunCheung]

That 30-day down counter is, of course, BS. After 3 months, if you want to order $5000 in prints, I am sure that they would be happy to ask you cash, check, or credit card. :-)

[think27]

Shun - yeah.. Most of my busy brides are 1 1/2 to 4 and sometimes 5 years after the wedding. Most of those orders are $700 to $3,000. Albums are not included in my packages and CD's are not either. They can have the negs after I "complete" the job which to me - is to make sure the images are perfectly printed and cropped the right way. I feel that my services are not just for "shooting" the wedding. I'd never charge $15 for a 4x5! Wow. I charge $7.50 for a 4x6 and - if they get an album and lots of prints - they get a huge discount. I currently am working on a album with over 160 5x7's and a nice batch of 4x6's. Just 5 or so 8x10's! There is at least one print ordered from every single roll and there are 30 some rolls. Some rolls the couple has ordered 20+ prints! This couple was married the summer before last.

 

Sure - I could just charge the couples $4,000-$5,000 and turn over the CD. Wow - I wouldn't have to do the work! Just let them print the photos themselves. Would they be good? Would the prints they hang up on their walls reflect my hard work - or would they be bad prints...bad color - poorly cropped etc. I've seen pro labs produce bad prints from files. Dunno... There may be some markets or type of clients that this is the best way..but it sure isn't my way.

[todd frederick]

I guess I'm just looking for more customer friendly ways for the client to get their prints and album. Holding the photos "hostage" doesn't seem quite "right" to me, though that's been done for years.

 

A good friend of mine just received a call from the same studio I mentioned above, asking if he wanted to buy his son's graduation negatives and proofs (from 5 years ago). I'm guessing that they're hurting for cash.

 

I also guess I would not be so critical if the studio corrected the digitals before putting them on the on-line gallery, and if they didn't put the 30 day counter on the gallery site, and if the photographer was a bit more careful about composition, exposure, etc., but, that's just me.

 

I kind of like an easy, quick "turn-key" opperation on this. I understand the need to make perfect prints, but not all clients know what a perfect is. I also think that many couples like to play with their digital photos nowdays.

 

On my last wedding, the groom is into digital imaging, so I included both a corrected image DVD and an uncorrected image DVD for him to work with.

 

I think this may the the way we are moving on this.

 

The times are changing, and I'm still looking new ways to market wedding photography that is good for me and for the client.