battery options for SB-800 (five NiMH's or two Li-ion?)

[darren_cokin]

I will be buying this flash soon, and am thinking about how best to power it. I

don't wish to ever use an external pack, or disposable batteries.<br><br>

 

Still no rechargeable lithium AA's on the market anywhere that I could find.

For AA, you have to settle for NiMH it seems. <br><br>

 

But, you ought to be able to stick a pair of CR-V3's in there, instead of 4

AA's, right? <br><br>

 

Anyone tried using <a

href="http://www.thomas-distributing.com/delkin-rcr-v3.htm">these rechargeables

from Delkin?</a><br>

Two chargers and 4 batteries (charge one set while using the other) would be

around $100. <br><br>

 

Seems like a good option. I've been very happy with their rechargeable CR123's

in my SB-50DX. <br><br>

 

But I wonder... Would you get faster recycles and/or more flashes using 5 AA

NiMH's? (using the clip on pack for a 5th cell that comes with the flash) <br><br>

 

What's the bigger advantage, adding a 5th cell, or switching to Lithium? The

lithium option would sure be lighter and more compact. (The cells themselves

are lighter, and I'd have fewer of them.) <br><br>

 

Anyway, I can't find a 5 or 10 cell AA NiMH charger. Only 4 or 8 cells.

Grrr.... <br><br>

 

Darren<br><br>

 

PS. In my google searching, I found something neat. I've got no intention of

going "off grid" any time soon, but it's cool to know the options have improved

recently. Solar chargers up to 20 watts that are <a

href="http://store.sundancesolar.com/pofosobach.html">foldable</a>, <a

href="http://store.sundancesolar.com/porosepoposo.html">rollable</a>

, and even <a href="http://store.sundancesolar.com/sobachforni.html">customized

for Nikon</a>'s lithium's!

[robert_martin5]

I use recharagable Alkaline AA batteries from this site:

 

http://store.sundancesolar.com/aareba.html

 

I have NiMH batteries, but since they do not hold a charge for long they do not work as good as the rechargable alkaline batteries unless you always use NiMH batteries that just came off the charger. The rechargable alkaline batteries will hold a charge for over a year so I always have fresh batteries on hand if the ones in the flash need recharging.

 

Recycle time is not as fast as with fresh charged NiMH batteries, but if I need fast cycle time I use my Lumedyne High Voltage external pack with the SB-800 and get recycle time of about 1 second.

[rick_m.]

I use NiMH Eveready 2500 MAH batteries and the 5th battery adapter. As a news shooter I use flash on most shots. These batteries last so long I have taken to leaving my spares in the car. I use two one-hour chargers but there are 15 minute chargers too. I get at least 250 - 300 partial power shots on a charge so two or three sets of batteries are good for just about any event. Even at full power the flash is rated at 150 shots with NiMH. Its not too often that I am making full power shots anyway.

 

Get a couple of 15 min chargers and you won't have any problem with doing 8 at a time. That will let you charge two sets in a half an hour.

 

This is a great flash and very easy on batteries.

[ShunCheung]

Attached is part of page 19 from the SB-800's instrution manual. Rechargable NiMH batteries provide the fastest flash recycle time. Lithium batteries are the worst and Alkaline is almost as poor.

 

When I shoot weddings, frequently even 5 NiMH do not quite give me the recycle time I need. I have thought about an external battery pack.<div></div>

[walterh]

Darren I use 5 cells AA NiMH with 2600 mAh. I did wire my own 5 cell holder for charging with a dedicated charger for RC airplane models running on a 12V supply. Now there are nice plug tipe chargers for 4 cells available that handle each cell individually, even capable of measuring capacity and delta peak charging each cell. Just get two of these even though it seems a little odd to charge the one #5 cell in a 4 cell charger. (Really odd is the flash with the cell #5 added externally.)

[ramon_v__california_]

totally agree with shun re: nimh vs lithium vs alkaline. just carry at least two sets of 5s charged in your bag.

 

i fly remote control helicopters so like walter, i rigged myself a holder so i can charge a set of five each time from my digipace charger. ..... this way, i don't hate nikon so much for making the odd-ball powered sb-800 that i love and the battery manufacturers that don't market sets of five batts and chargers that do five at a time ;-)

 

btw, walmart sells duracells that are 2700 mah and costco sells sanyos at 2500 both with chargers --- both at excellent prices.

[Ed_Ingold]

NiMH batteries have up to 2500 mAH, which is nearly twice the capacity of ordinary alkaline batteries. As you note, it is a PITA to charge an odd number of batteries, and the 5th battery adds little to the speed and capacity. I just carry a dozen spare NiMH batteries, which I charge the night before in an 8-slot charger.

 

If you want a significant improvement in capacity and recycle time, use an high-voltage battery pack such as a Quantum Turbo 2x2 or a Nikon SD-8a. You still need AA batteries for the flash, but they have little load, and will last for at least 600 pops. The HV battery connects to the front of the flash and cuts the recycle time down to 2 seconds. The 2x2 is good for more than 400 pops. In a normal situation, the flash works at reduced power, and 400 pops barely moves the "fuel" gauge to the 3/4 mark.

[mawz]

Roger: The NiMH's will recycle about twice as fast as your recharagble Alkalines and will hold more charge. They will lose charge quicker though (Anywhere from a couple weeks to a couple months until they're useless). The simple solution is to always rotate one set onto the charger.

[david_h._hartman]

I recommend the fifth battery option included in the SB-800

kit (no extra cost). The batteries I recommend are the 2500mAh

Eveready NiMH AA(s) or I just noticed Duracell now offers 2630 or

2640mAh NiMH AA(s). Stay with a top brand that offers a repair or

replace guarantee. Others but not in anyway complete are Sanyo,

Panasonic, etc. For a local retailer Wal-Mart seems to be the

best in the USA.<br>

<br>

It helps to have a battery charger with individual channels so

that it will charge one AA cell. This way you can charge just

five batteries in two 4 cell chargers. I recommend a combination 4

hour and 16 hour changers. Understand that the faster the charge

the more stress on the battery and the shorter the life. NiMH

batteries will be warm when the finish charging but they should

not be hot.<br>

<br>

If shorter battery life is worth the cost then 15 minute and 1

hour chargers may suit you. I know this cuts battery life but I

normally have some batteries, about a dozen, ready in 16 hour

chargers.<br>

<br>

The best information on batteries that Ive found is at this

link...<br>

<br>

<a href="http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-23.htm"

target="_new"><u>http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-23.htm</u></a><br>

<br>

I suggest reading the above then go to the home page and explore.<br>

<br>

Its a good idea to have AA alkalines in reserve but I do

not like using them in a speedlight. When these backups get older

they go into flashlights and such. I do not use AA alkaline

batteries in cameras except as a last resort. Alkaline batteries

are more prone to leak than NiCd, NiMH and Lithium batteries as

they have a one shot over-pressure vent. The others have a

resealing vent. <br>

<br>

Best,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[EricM]

I got really tired of messing with batteries. So I built my own around the safety of the low voltage input via a quantum adapter. After some research, a lot of questions, and special ordering, I sourced 5 NiMH cells a little bigger than an AA and this pack puts out 4300mA! Recycling time is awesome, almost instant on a full dump. A bit of Velcro and I can leave it alone wireless in softbox on a stand. I reckon it puts out four times the shots of what an aftermarket $500 battery cost. Initial charge took 16 hours with a 350mA charger though. I love it.

 

<br><br>

<center><img src=" http://www.ericmilner.com/photos/sb800/images/_EM23306.jpg"></center><br><br>

<center><img src=" http://www.ericmilner.com/photos/sb800/images/_EM23307.jpg"></center><br><br>

[vivek iyer]

Way to go Eric! Get them fabricated in PRC and you should make a bundle!

 

I will get a few to power my massive SB-14s.

 

Darren, what do you do at NASA?

[darren_cokin]

Thanks everyone for the comments.<br><br>

 

I placed the order for the flash from B&H last night, should have it later this week. I didn't order any batteries from them though, because I thought I'd see what was available locally. Went to my local electronics superstore earlier today (Fry's), and spent a long time staring at their wall of NiMH batteries and chargers. There were over 20 chargers to choose from, but I quickly became frustrated. I thought I picked out a perfect compact 8 cell charger, but eventually saw in the fine print that it could only charge 2, 4, 6 or 8 cells at a time. So, I would be sh@t-out-of-luck trying to charge 5 from the SB-800. Even some that did have individual status lights for each cell couldn't charge odd numbers of them. Some packages didn't say either way, but if it had only one light, I assumed it was all or nothing. The only small one that could do odd numbers was an "8 minute charger", which sounds suspicious. (That's too fast to be good for the batteries.) The only acceptable options were big expensive units, that I didn't want to have to pack in my suitcase when I travel. I would have just turned away and started looking online again, but then I noticed they had rechargeable Li-ion CR-V3's, similar to the Delkin's I had seen online, but much cheaper. Just $20 each for a battery and charger. Brand name is UltraLast. The chargers are nice and small. So I bought 2 of them. They said if I slice open the blister packs carefully, I can return them. So, when I get the flash in a few days, I'll do some testing, and see if the refresh rate is acceptable, and re-evaluate my options then. I'll report my findings here.<br><br>

 

Honestly, I really don't believe the numbers that Shun pasted above from the manual. For each type of battery, the refresh time went down when a 5th one was added, but not for Lithium. That doesn't jibe. According to the packages I was reading at the store, all the rechargeable AA NiMH's are actually rated for 1.2 volts, less than the usual 1.5 for AA. So, 5 of them will be only 6 volts. The rechargeable Li-ion CR-V3's are rated at 3.15-3.25V, so only 2 of them will give a stronger voltage than the NiMH's. I know voltage isn't the only factor, but I can't believe the times stated in that table. I have to see for myself. And since this was a cheap, convenient option, that I can return, I thought I'd give it a shot...<br><br><br>

 

 

Vivek asks (I'm not sure why here):<br>

<i>Darren, what do you do at NASA?</i><br><br>

 

Not much any more, sorry to say. A few odd jobs here and there, when something comes up that's related to one of my prior assignments (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-93">space shuttle payload integration</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBSS">Orbiter Boom Sensor System</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-37">X-37</a>). Just today a manager approved 2 hours of funding so I could answer a question for someone in Houston. That took 12 minutes though. Most of the NASA funding for the California branch has dried up. They're keeping us busy on other projects. For the last few months I've been working on a structural enhancement for the 777 airliner. Hopefully when NASA picks a vendor for the new <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_Exploration_Vehicle">'back-to-the-moon'</a> program I'll have more interesting work to do again. But they keep delaying the selection. Not until January now I here...<br><br>

 

Darren

[darren_cokin]

Follow up:<br>

The SB-800's battery compartment has dividers in between each AA slot, so the CR-V3's won't fit. I returned them without doing my "science experiment".<br>:-(<br><br>

 

Still no joy finding an appropriate 5 cell AA charger...<br><br>

 

Darren

[EricM]

well, i have an answer for you if you have the budget Darren!

[EricM]

"The rechargeable Li-ion CR-V3's are rated at 3.15-3.25V, so only 2 of them will give a stronger voltage than the NiMH's."

 

you don't want to go over 6v with the low voltage input on the sb. if you want to go over 6v you have to use the high voltage input like quantum does. besides, it's not about volatge, it's about amperage. research what the third party batteries put out for mA's and what they cost. the one i made above puts out 4300mA! that's unheard of, at least to me. and it goes through the safest place, the low voltage input.