kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I don't agree with a lot of you on this site. Saying that annyonomous ratings are better to have because thay cant be manipulated or they stop friends from making other friends images get higher ratings. It is the opposite. It gives loosers a way to give bad ratings to good images without haveing to show their face, so their snapshots can get better ratings. anyone can tell their friends they have a new picture up and you can get to it very quick in the annynomous section just as easy to help your friends. I think to make it fair , anyone who gives a rating of 4 or less should have to show their name and also have to leave a critique. If they have the time to give a bad rating they sure as Heck have the time to say why. I bet that would stop the biast people on here that like giving great images 3s.Kevin O'Connell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 "This member has rated 44 photos on this site, with average ratings of 3.64 for Aesthetics and 3.59 for Originality. The ratings went to 39 distinct photographers. You can browse some of the photos rated highest by this member." "This member has received 434 ratings, on 35 distinct photos, averaging 4.88 for Aesthetics, and 4.94 for Originality. The ratings were from 283 other members." Just FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 Look at my comments to Stevei. And you are right they were done with my name not hidden maybe like you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 Stevie Wow ,you have been on this site for almost 4 years and olnly rated 8 pictures. Hmmmm, bet you rated lots more annynomously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Kevin, when I first started on photo.net, the ratings system was worked differently, but there was still no end of complaints. The actual system is all complicated now, but the complication is due to trying to solve this or that problem. Regardless of how the system works, practically every complaint boils down to "my ratings are too low". I remember my grandmother telling a story about the man who had 7 daughters, "each more beautiful than the others". That's the way it is here. Everyone wants to be above average, and it just doesn't work. There are always mate-rates and other games going on, too, but still, a lot of the problem is just trying to get everyone above average. I figured out pretty quick that offering what I could in the way of a critique would be more useful than a rating, and that's kind of what I've stuck to doing. Looking over your portfolio, it looks like you've got some high quality work there, and I wouldn't worry too much about trying to get the ratings to prove it. The ratings and critiques here represent a wide range of abilities and interests. I've met people who felt that any B&W photo was just substandard- after all, that's the way TV used to be before they "fixed" it. It's kind of like taking one of your pictures out to a mall and asking passersby what they think of it. A lot of people just won't be impressed by a B&W image of a homeless person, and artistic skill won't change that. That doesn't mean the photos aren't good, just you have to evaluate where those ratings come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 Hey Steve, thanks for the reply. I am not talking about my images and could really care less. I however just came on today and decided to look at photos in the critique section and saw 4 very nice quality images and everyone was given a pair of 3s to start in the hidden section of the ratings. I dont see how hard it would be to have anyone that gives a 4 or less to have to also leave a critque . I am not saying that they need to change the why the images are rated at all. Just make it fair in an easy way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 <i>I dont see how hard it would be to have anyone that gives a 4 or less to have to also leave a critque </i><P> The hard part isn't making that change in the software. The hard part is cleaning up all the flame wars and abuse that occurs as a result of the critiques. Contrary to what people claim here about "I just want to know why people don't like the image," when critiques were required for low ratings, the critiques caused far more hurt feelings, flame wars, and abuse than the numbers themselves. Having names attached to low ratings led to huge numbers of retaliatory ratings and abuse. As has been explained over and over again, the things you recommend have been tried in the past--they caused far more problems than the current setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 Wow Mike ,thats really sad that it caused so many problems leaving critiques. I can see your point. I am newer her but not to photography and was hopong to find a place on the net to have some fun but it looks like I might have better luck doing something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Just FYI- I haven't rated ANY photos anonymously- the 8 ratings I show were all before anonymous ratings even existed. Also, I don't know how the system is currently working, but there have been times in the past when ratings were being automatically done by a robot program. The administrators would catch that, and a couple of days after a shot was submitted, some of the low ratings might be removed. Don't know if that's the case right now, but it could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absinthe Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 From what I understand, there are different programs run from time to time to erase ratings from people who only give low or high ratings as well as bots. From what Brian has said in the past, bot attacks happen far less often than people think. People get all offended & question the low ratings, but never the higher ones... hmmm. The only ratings that are anonymous are the ratings given utilizing the Rate Recent queue. They are also the only ratings that account for the default view in the TRP. All other ratings are attributed to someone. The mandatory comments were tried & it failed miserably. It resulted in flame wars & useless comments like "it sucks" or "WOW". The anonymous ratings came about more recently due to the TRP being taken over by mate raters & such. While far from perfect, believe me, things are much better this way. Here's a thought... did you ever think the person that gave you the low rating simply didn't like your picture & they don't need a reason why? Would an "it sucks" comment help you any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 By the way, on the Community Member page, the rating counts include ratings given anonymously. So, if you see that someone has given 8 ratings that includes anonymous ratings given in the Rate Recent queue. Also, if you look at "Photos Rated Highest By This Member", that includes photos which were rated 6 and 7 by the person. That includes anonymous ratings also. So, if you want to find out the anonymous person who gave you a 7, you only have to check out the "Photos Rated Highest" page of a couple of hundred thousand other people to find out, (on the average). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_clarke Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Look I cared about ratings for about two weeks and then said f**K it. The only reasons it matters is for views, which we all want. You do have to be on the first pages to get the high number of views. Why not scrap the vote and add an option where people can add a photo as a favorite. Those that get added the most will then float to the top. Let everyone see peoples favorites and you will get an opinion what people are adding re freinds, nudes etc. I know I would be very selective on what I add as a favorite. I mean this is just pretty basic but tweaks here and there could be added. Just a thought not a solution. And you will never please everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_clarke Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 When I said scrap, I don't mean get rid of rates already aquired, I know they mean alot to some people. I should have said discontinue and save. Feel free to get rid of mine though, they are getting worse all the time. LOL. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanphysics Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 <i>I dont see how hard it would be to have anyone that gives a 4 or less to have to also leave a critque</i><p>Then perhaps you should practice what you preach. You're extremely free with the low ratings, giving mostly 3's and lower. (26 out of 44 images a 3 or lower in originality, and 24 of them a 3 or lower in aesthetics.) Yet I can find only two instance of you ever having commented on a photo you gave a 3 or less. Unless of course you rated anonymously, which you claim not to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 Thanks all for the great imput. As for the last comment,after being new here and seeing so many good images NOT FROIM ME! rated low because of some who just sit at the computer and click away without having a clue.So yes when I see a bad image with high ratings I will send them a pair of 3s without a problem. they dont need a critique because the snapshot tells the story. Lets not forget the reason I wrote this was not because of my own images but the nice images I saw get killed with ignorant raters. My pictures are in Galleries and in some competitions around the world were the judges (raters have a clue).I was hoping that this site would be fun and a change of pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 "I am newer her but not to photography and was hopong to find a place on the net to have some fun but it looks like I might have better luck doing something else." Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, you will never find a place on the web where you will have more fun than here on PN. If you stick around for a few months, you will be continuously entertained by members complaining about the rating system. Instead of funneling their creative energy into making photos, they instead choose to whine about "the system" and how (boo hoo hoo) unfair it is. What I really get a kick out of is that most of the complainers don't even have many photos uploaded. Anyway, stick around and have some fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmee Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 After reviewing your home page (quickly) I think you might find some enjoyment in the Street and Documentary forum, or by creating a presentation on your Marshal Islands documentary, here on PN. The presentations forum is a much under-used forum. Nice portfolio, so far! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wade_rose Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Look out if Pn puts a "See what this member rated lowest" on our Community Member page...the wars would start.........lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprouty Posted July 24, 2006 Share Posted July 24, 2006 <I>"So yes when I see a bad image with high ratings I will send them a pair of 3s without a problem. they dont need a critique because the snapshot tells the story.</I> <P> Revenge rating, rating to "balance" other ratings, ratings without comments, etc. are all part of the problem you're complaining about. Do you really need someone else to tell you that <I>you</I> are the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 25, 2006 Author Share Posted July 25, 2006 Oh SP, it seems I got your goat. you should read the whole post and not just part of a sentence. Good luck with your snapshots, wink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprouty Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 You don't have my goat Kevin, you're just a lesson about how not to behave for the next person to come along wondering about all this. <P> Consider this: you've been here for a month, then post an opinion loaded with innuendo on a subject that has been beaten to death. Then to top it off you're guilty of the exact behavior you claim you have a problem with. <P> Your actions actually promote and perpetuate the problem, but you don't know that because you haven't made any real effort to understand the long history and debate of the rating process. Don't believe me? Well then why not do a thorough search, this subject has been beaten to death by people with a far greater understanding of photography than you currently have. <P> Personally I don't participate in the rating game: it doesn't provide me with access to the images <I>I</I> find interesting. In fact I believe it shows the images I find <I>least</I> appealing. But hey, that's my cross to bear. <P> As for my "snap shots", well have at them Kevin, dump a load of 1's or 2's on them. I promise you I'll never notice and will sleep as sound as a baby tonight. You see, the true beauty of this site is that if you focus on the areas where you need help and personal growth, instead of the things that get you all worked up, you can keep on learning. Even if everyone else is pissing and moaning about the entire place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 25, 2006 Author Share Posted July 25, 2006 SP, you seemed to have missed the point here. This should be a place were photographers can relax and talk about each others techniques and styles and also give advice to others who want to learn and strive in this art field. Some on here are truely nice and like to help new photographers and then others like yourself go and post stupid remarks and think you have the right to ridicule others because you have been on this site for a long time. I am new here but like I said not to photography. My images are judged professionaly and do extreemely well.They are also for sale in Galleries,if you are interested in buying one. Good luck and maybe after you have been a member on here for a few more years they will buy you a watch or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprouty Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 Good luck Kevin, since you apparently know enough about how the site should be run after a month I'll bow out of the discussion. One more thing before I go, here is a link to something that may help. http://www.iespell.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_oconnell1664880348 Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 No thank you PS,I'm fine bubye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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