Kiev system for Underwater Photography

[martin_f._melhus]

I was thinking about putting together a Kiev system, and seeing if

Ikelite would make a custom housing for it. Before you laugh out loud,

here are the reasons that this might not be a terrible idea.

 

1) It is said that you shouldn't put any camera underwater that you

couldn't afford to have flooded. You can get a housing for a Hassie

903SWC, but if it floods, your U$ 5000 camera will probably need

$1000 of repair, and may never be the same again. It makes more

sense to put a less expensive system like a Kiev in the ocean.

 

2) Film length. I am speculating that there are 70mm backs for

the Hassie 1000 that could be stuck on a Kiev 88. And even if

they exist, they may be unbuyable (cause no-one is selling.)

This would probably rule out the 60 as well, unless there's a

custom option for a 70mm back. Interchangable backs (like

interchangable lenses) don't help one bit underwater.

 

Given the above, and that Ike might be intrigued, one could put

together 3 lenses, a body or two, a 70mm back, a couple of strobes

(got those already,) and a housing, and have a MF U/W system for

around U$ 1500.

 

Obvious caveats - get used to the 88 body, and get one that works.

Same for the film back, lens, etc. Test extensively on land before

trying it on your $2000+ dive trip.

 

Problems - 70mm back availability. Also, UW, cameras have to be

even more reliable. Salt water, humidity, temperature changes,

and so forth can wreack havoc with fine shutters and delicate

transport mechanisms. Many people advise only taking pro level

cameras (N90 or above in Nikon's line) for U/W work. This might

work against the Kiev solution.

 

Of course there are bad Kiev 88's out there, and no one would

want to use one on land - never mind under water. But there are

good ones too, and if one could get one of those, it might be the

way to go.

 

I'm interested in hearing any and all comments, especially from

other U/W photographers, and people with better than terrible

experiences with Kiev stuff.

 

Regards,

[colin_zylka]

Martin,

If I may be so bold....what are you missing when using a 35mm system underwater, that you need to move to MF? I've been using Nikonos equipment for a number of years, and have recently made the move to a Nikon N-90s in an Ikelite housing and have been very pleased with the results. One could argue the merits of MF image quality over 35 when it comes to enlargements, but I'd counter with the expense of film, processing, and the extra bulk of MF equipment underwater in strong currents, etc. Just my two cents....

 

Colin.

[thomas_r._young]

Filmbacks for Hassy 1000f and Kiev 88 are not interchangeable. I had 1000f and I also have Kiev 88 gear,and the Hassy 12 back and the Kiev 88 120 back will not interchange.

Thomas R. Young

[peter walker]

Martin,

 

I too have often dreamed about taking a medium format camera underwater - but I have never let my dream turn to reality for a couple of reasons:

 

1. An MF camera in a housing is going to be very bulky and cumbersome. Occassionally I enjoy a dive without my Nikonos V and SB102 strobe just for the shear pleasure of not having to hang on to a camera ("Heresay!", I hear you all hiss...)

 

2. I have enough problems getting a couple of decent shots from 36 frames so reducing the number of available frames per dive does not seem like a good idea (of course 70mm roll film could solve this problem).

 

3. Underwater you need a fast, wide lens like the Nikonos 20mm. I doubt if the Kiev lenses will be fast enough or wide emough.

 

But, if you decide to make a project out of your dream, I would be interested in hearing about the results.

 

Regards

Peter

[dan_daniel]

Martin,

For UW photos, powerful TTL flash is very important for many types of shots. With MF shallow depth of field, it is even more critical. Make sure your TTL flash system works well underwater. For lens choice, get the wide angles. You get telephoto effect automatically underwater.

 

Dan

[martin_f._melhus]

Colin -

 

Please go ahead and be bold. I shoot underwater so that I can

blow up the best shots and put them on my walls. The largest

that I've gone is 11x14, and those show some grain when looked

at closely. Even my favorite shot, with a rented Nikonos 15mm

lens on a Nikonos IV-A is grainy at 11x14. I'd love to be able

to make much larger images, but would to need to move up to

MF.

 

I currently have a Nik III, Nik IV-A, and Nik V, 17mm S&S, 28mm,

35mm and 80mm lenses, Ikelite 225, Helix Aquaflash 28 and Oceanic

2003 strobes, as well as macro framers, viewfinders, etc. The

Nikonos system is OK as far as it goes. But above water, I shoot

almost entirely MF and LF (Koni-Omega, Voigtlander, Yashica 124G,

Super Speed Graphic.) I like using manual exposure cameras, am

not a huge fan of TTL (although it definitely has it's strengths,)

and really enjoy technical photography, as well as building stuff.

 

So that's why I'd like a Medium Format U/W system. I understand

that the film and processing are more expensive, but if I can't

get an image that I'm happy with at 35mm, the extra cost is

trivial. After all, a cheap computer that doesn't work will

effectively cost more than an expensive one that does work.

 

-----

 

Thomas -

 

There was a post here a while ago where some guy claimed that

he picked up a hassie 1000 back at a camera show for $50, fixed

it up for $20, and it works great on his 88. Was hoping that

this would be true.

 

-----

 

Peter -

 

The 30mm fish-eye is pretty wide. And the 45mm lens has

a field of coverage comparable to a 17mm lens on a 35mm

camera. Of course, a properly curved dome port would be

needed, and perhaps an Ivanoff corrector of some type.

 

Also the differences between amatuer and pro U/W photographers

kinda look like this:

 

1: Ams get maybe 2 good shots a roll.

Pros get maybe 4 good shots a roll.

 

2: Ams shoot maybe 40 rolls a year.

Pros shoot maybe 400 rolls a year.

 

This produces 80 keepers/yr for the am, and

1600 for the pro. These are clearly ballpark

figures, but they point out a basic truth.

If you are paid to shoot u/w, you'll shoot more,

and keep more.

 

-----

 

Dan -

 

Everyone that I've talked to says TTL is pretty useless

for W/A shots u/w. For macro, it makes life a lot easier,

and for fish portraits, it helps some. Given that, a

full manual camera and a good knowledge of full manual

technique will produce more keepers than blind faith in

the camera's electronics, at least for W/A work, which for

me is the cat's meow.

 

-----

 

I hope I've explained myself some. A while ago I thought

that the Hassie 903SWC and it's housing were the ultimate

in U/W equipment, but I then thought about flooding it and

decided that it was too much money to put into a housing and

dunk in the briny deep. Kiev makes the MF option cheaper,

and more reasonable to dive with, and has no hassles that the

Hassie system wouldn't have (aside from the quirkyness of

the Kiev system, but that's a land problem as well.)

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Regards,

[david_jefferson]

I have had Aluminum U/W housings that I have used for years all without a single drip of water ever entering the internals. Nikonos V is easy to flood as all o-rings need to be serviced between dives but housed cameras don't seem to be flooded easily. I have have three housed cameras and never a leak for me, people I have loaned the housings to or friends with housings. I am pursuing the 903 swc outfit with little concern about floods. I would be far more concerned about camera malfunctions. If you are concerned enough there are moisture detectors that should detect water and warn you in time to return to the surface. I own an Aquatica-3 TTl and an Aquatica-5 and no water in either after 100's of rolls of film. So if you keep the camera inside the housing cheap do so knowing the reliability of the camera is adequate. I try to populate the housing with used cameras when possible to save cost. I travel to the So. pacific once a year and have lost many pictures due to assorted malfunctions but never floods. Currently i am concerned only about water entering the housing because I failed to dry myself thooroughly before leaning over the housing when changing film. Good luck.