Persuasive line to secure photographs during the ceremony ?

[uk]

Today, I shot a high society wedding with all the trimmings - horses and carriage with matching

Dalmatian dogs etc, yet the album will suffer because the Minister restricted the photography during

the service.

 

Her position was that the congregation should not be distracted by the movement of the photographer

at this special time.

 

I respect her authority in these matters, but wonder why she denies the very essence of the whole

ceremony from being recorded ?

 

We talked, but she would not budge and I did not push the isssue hard for fear of a disagreement. The

bridesmaids stayed in position behind the B&G throughout the whole ceremony so I could not shoot

down the aisle. The view from the gallery was impaired by a hanging lamp fixture. Quite frustrating.

 

Has anyone go a very convincing line on this ?

[ben conover]

Minister sounds like a nutter mate. I'd just snap away and get the job done anyway. I assume you were booked to shoot the gig, so shoot it. Failing that, make sure you don't get the same minister next time, or it's 'yes minister' forever...

 

Cheers.

[detroit wedding photograph]

green screens & photoshop? ha.

[chris_s___hampton_roads_va]

re-enact specific shots after the fact?

[kiva]

Remote set up (for camera) so you can fire a prefocused and ready camera that is sitting quietly on the floor (one of those tiny tripods) and off to the side in a discreet location and will never be seen or heard. Fire using a pocket wizard type of set up that allows you to fire a remote camera.

 

You'd be following all the rules since it seems a photographer can actually shoot from the balconey which means you can shoot from there but doesn't say where the camera can be located.

 

I'd really work hard at hiding the camera to show the greatest respect for the intent of the rules which is to not disrupt the Congregation or anyone else and the Remotely fired camera does just that and gets you a hand full of potentially good photographs.

[Jerry_]

Next time, find a friend and give him a Leica to shoot with from one of the front pews. He, of course, would remain in one spot, and the little 'zing' should not turn into trouble during the service.

 

 

 

 

[Had one wedding where the 'photography' was not allowed to use a camera duing the service, but the lady with the video camera on a tripod had no restrictions on shooting the service. Go figure....]

[david_schilling___chicago_]

I doubt that this was the minister's or the church's first wedding...they all have their rules. I would suggest you figure a way to respect their wishes and shoot within their guidelines.

[marv_stasak___southfield__]

Most churches around here have the same rules. No flash after the ceremony starts and available light pix only from the back of the church. Many ministers view the taking of pictures a distraction from the ceremony and they have the right to make that call. I wouldn't ignore the rules and shoot anyway, either. You would take the chance of being ordered off the premises with the minister refusing to continue until you left. Now THAT would ruin your day!

[cjogo]

Most Churches have the same rules--in our area. If you want to work again --you follow Their rules,,,not the B&G. The priest will actually stop the ceremony - single the "law-breaker" out with a reprimand >>> if the rules are not met!

[uk]

David Schilling - I would suggest you figure a way to respect their wishes and shoot within

their guidelines.

 

Marv Stasak - Many ministers view the taking of pictures a distraction from the ceremony

and they have the right to make that call. I wouldn't ignore the rules and shoot anyway,

either.

 

c jo gough - Most Churches have the same rules--in our area. If you want to work again

--you follow Their rules!

 

 

The question was to see if anyone had a 'persuasive line ?'. I was not seeking confirmation

that I had to observe her wishes, as that's almost exactly what I did.

 

I did venture forward when the hymns were being sung, but not when the vows were being

made.

 

It's interesting that, with all this experience on hand, there's not a 'sweet talker' amongst

us.

[stacy]

Sometimes you can talk them into letting you sit in a pew and photograph from there- if you promise not to move- or use flash. That's all I've got :)

[david_schilling___chicago_]

I'm not necessarily a sweet talker, but I'll tell you what I do. I dress appropraitely. I meet with the officiant before the ceremony and call him/her "Father, Pastor, Sir, or Mam"....I also ask them for a blessing/prayer that my photography captures the "spirit" of the sacrament/ceremony. (BTW, the prayer request is not a gimmick, it's a genuine request....I would suggest that anyone looking to improve their photos do the same) I then assure them that my goal is "discrete" coverage.

 

After this I often hear stories from the pastor about the goofy photographer that was crawling on the floor during the ring exchange a few weeks ago or several other horror stories that they have encountered involving unprofessional photographers. None of this is "sweet talk" it's the genuine me. Whatever their guidelines, I respect them and just adjust my photography as needed.

[bill_b2]

The album will suffer because you did not find out about the venue's rules ahead of time. The rule is to prevent the photographer's actions from intruding on the service. Some photographers treat weddings the same way they would a press conference, making it all about the picture and not the ceremony. It is a common rule. The rules vary from minister to minister, in addition to church to church, denomination to denomination, and religion to religion.

 

It will also help if you know exactly what is going to happen in the service. Some couples are able to make changes that you will want to capture.

 

Also good to scope out the venue ahead of time in case there is something really different about it, especially lighting issues. You may be able to find other wedding pix at the venue on the Web and save yourself a trip.

 

That said, it is also common to reenact the service afterward, placing people as needed. Ask the church minister or wedding coordinator about that possibility.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

BTW Gary, At the minister's next wedding they will likely explain the same rules to the photographer, and then add, thinking that photographers are not the "sharpest tools in the shedd", that the rules still apply even while they are singing hymns. When this doesn't work, they will find a delightful church lady, convince her that photographers indeed are not the "sharpest tools in the shed" and they will be the designated official church "photographer watcher"....Then, if that's still not enuff, the church will write out the rules and require that the B/G have their photographers sign them weeks ahead of the event.

[uk]

"That said, it is also common to reenact the service afterward, placing people

as needed. Ask the church minister or wedding coordinator about that possibility"

 

Bill, that can happen on a rainy day in September, but a hot sunny day in July and the

momentum of the event would prevent any re-enactment. Tere was 150 guests at the

ceremony with all the males in top hat and tales and every female toting a digital camera.

There was no going back inside. In fact, the bride requested on the morning of the

wedding that no formals be taken at the church after the wedding and we return to the

family home for that session.

 

I also recall that the minister said to me that the video operator would have a complete

record of the event !

 

 

David, you probably don't intend it, but you are coming over as a candidate for the

director of the Church Police. Do you have any 'constructive' comments ?

[picturesque]

I don't have any persuasive lines since there usually isn't enough time to get into a discussion like that with the officiant before the ceremony (unless days or weeks in advance). I do, however, ask the officiant to stay in his/her robes and do re-creations after the ceremony--kind of in exchange for obeying the rules. No officiant has refused so far. And most couples will do the re-creations if I explain that I didn't get very good views due to church rules. If they balk, I just make sure they understand what they won't get, and if they agree that they really don't care about the not so great views, I drop the idea. I doubt that you can say anything that will change the officiant's mind anyway. And when you get "outside yourself" as a wedding photographer, you (or at least, I) can see that it isn't the end of the world if you don't get the most complete or perfect set of ceremony photos. Sometimes, the video, if there is a video, must be relied on. If there isn't a video, then that might make me push harder for re-creations, even on a hot day.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

David, you probably don't intend it, but you are coming over as a candidate for the director of the Church Police. Do you have any 'constructive' comments?-Gary

 

Yes, I already gave them to you. (looks like you've focused on my 3rd post rather than the 2nd) The other comments was for the photographer that has to deal with the minister at the next wedding...and all the other photographers that have a similar attitude toward the church rules which makes the rules more restrictive for us all. As for the "church police"....This isn't the first post on P-net where I've made similar comments towards photographers making up their own rules and disregarding the minister. I do feel alot more sympathetic towards the church interests and treat my photography as something of a personal ministry. I can be opinionated,...at times, and this is one,....sorry :-)

[marv_stasak___southfield__]

Gary,

 

There probably IS no way to persuade a priest or minister to change his/her mind just for you. The've heard it all and seen it all and that's why they make restrictions. Thank some unnamed boor of a photographer in their past for that. That's not to say that many priests and ministers don't see themselves as kings and queens of their own little domains. Give it a go in a nice way, if they don't agree, let it go and deal with wbat you have.

 

Re-enactments never work for me. There just isn't the time. If I try to do them AND get the formals in the sanctuary, they usually will be late for the receoption and I will, of course, be blamed for that. It's a situation where you cannot win, so it's just better to go with what you have and let the bride know what is going to, or not going to, happen.

[uk]

Nadine,

Your post sums up how it went yesterday. I chatted to the minister whilst waiting for the

bride to arrive and did take several posed frames of her in her vestments, in the hope of

building a relationship.

 

However, she was a visiting minister and this was her first time at the church and was clear

she wanted it doing her way. She was most helpful in the Registry, which was very kind,

and before leaving I committed to send her a copy of her portrait and she complimented

me thanked me for complying with her wishes.

 

Regardless of personal views on these matters, it is good business to build relationships

with all of the active parties in the wedding scene, be it ministers, florists, dress makers,

DJ�s, caterers, etc., as one �we never start on time when he�s the photographer�. � can

cost you a number of future jobs.

[picturesque]

Marv--I do re-creations but they only take about 5 minutes--10 minutes at the most, once you start, so I don't run into time problems. I only re-create highlights so the images rarely involve more people than the bride and groom and officiant. So I don't waste time re-posing the rest of the wedding party. The bare minimum goes like this. Bride and groom exchanging rings--2 shots, with officiant looking on. Usually as happened in the ceremony. One shot from on the altar facing couple looking at officiant. If you want, you can grab two more shots of bride's and groom's faces as they are turned to each other, or close ups of the hands and rings in the exchange. Have them recite the one or two sentence vows again. The magic is still there. Point is, if you can grab them fast, you can shoot quite a lot. If I have more time, I do the father presenting the bride to the groom, the hand shake with the groom and kissing the bride on the cheek as the father gives her away. And any other very important event in the ceremony, such as candle-lighting if you couldn't get that during, or presenting flowers to the mothers, etc. But only if there is time. The bare minimum is three shots, four if I include the candle lighting. I use flash to avoid the tripod if there isn't ample light for handholding in natural light. This isn't optimal of course, either with lighting or content, but some images are better than nothing. This also assumes you did get the requisite view from the back of the church, which shows couple plus wedding party and did everything possible to get the best views you could, given the restrictions.

[mark_jacoby___raleigh__nc]

Typically the church rules are disclosed when we have our prewedding ocnference with the B&G. If they don't know, we will call the church and ask.

 

Earlier this year we had a visiting pastor tell us no shooting whatsoever. The bride was in tears. We explained to him that the B&G were paying us good money and while we respected the rules, couldn't we take the processional, recessional and the kiss/presentation of the couple. He relented but only for the sake of the bride.

 

I can't give you a magic phrase but I think that acting in a professional manner helped.

[picturesque]

Well there's always bargaining. "If I do x, then can I do x?" Most of the time, I can only get so far with that, though. I might be able to get the kiss at the end from closer up the aisle, for instance, or some smaller thing, but I've never gotten the whole request. One can ask, though, and as Mark said, if you are nice and professional, you might get some concessions. Make sure you follow the agreement, if you get one, to the letter though, and that you can control every aspect of the agreement. I recall one wedding where I got a concession from the priest to stand closer to the altar for the processional, and during the processional, the videographer's digital photographer (another story) started shooting up a storm, and I ended up being kicked out by the officiant, not the other guy. I didn't want to make a fuss during the ceremony, so I bit my lip and left. That's another tactic--"Don't Ask, Don't Have to Follow Rules". I've seen other photographers use that ploy--feign innocence after the fact. You'd have to be very charming to get away with that and still work as a pro wedding photographer, though.