Canon 20D sharpness and focusing problems

[marknagel]

Your tamron lens looks sharp in those samples. Some 50/1.8 lenses have a front focus issue. Have you tried a front/rear focus test? My 50/1.8 did, my others don't.

 

m

[shambrick007]

"The camera is working fine, 185 USM (Unsharp mask) with a radius of 8 has sharpened this up fine"<p>You're kidding right? A radius of 8?!?! Both versions look horrible. Somthing is definately up.

[michael_matsil]

Sandra:

 

Listen to Mark Nagel and for the moment ignore all of the other posts here. They're valid

information, but you're flying blind until you do a controlled test like Mark suggests. Set

something up with crisp text (under well lit conditions) at 45 degrees to the lens axis and

pick a precise location to focus on....manually if possible. Set the lens wide open and set

up the camera on a tripod. Use a cable release or the self timer. Try different lenses.

You'll have your answer within 30 minutes. If your target is not in focus, but it IS in front

of or behind, have your camera looked at by a service technician.

 

BTW: your picture is out of focus as anyone can see. Unsharp mask is not a solution for

out of focus pictures.....period. The "sharpened" example that Erin provides has hideous

sharpening artifacts and still doesn't appear sharp. Sorry Erin :-)

[sparkie]

Mark, have u got a copy of that testing chart u could email me?

[kbreak]

I bet one could Google a chart.

[kbreak]

yep, see how fast?

<BR><BR>

Link in the middle of the page

<BR><BR>

http://md.co.za/d70/

[marknagel]

Click on my name and request my email. I'll send the one I have. Its nice because the focus point isn't surrounded by anything so if you choose center point focus, it can only lok on it.

 

Mark

[marknagel]

Nevermind found the link I got if from with the directions, looks like Kevin found it too.

 

Mark

 

http://md.co.za/d70/chart.html

[digitmstr]

Sandra, the Tamron lens you have seems ok by the "test" pix you posted of the lens box yet, the couple's image is out of focus but...it too was taken with the Tamron (by reading the exif which gives a 56mm @ f/2.8).

 

When an image is out focus NO amount of USM will help, in fact, it makes matters worse, usually. Focus and sharpness are two entirely separate issues.

 

So, there is something else at play... When you took the picture of the couple, which focus point did you use? Generally speaking, when taking pictures of more than one person using f/2.8 is very difficult because the DOF will be shallow. In that picture though, nothing is in focus which would suggest the camera/lens combo mis-focused or there's always the possibility of user's error.

 

Sometimes, lenses & bodies need to be calibrated. This is something that Canon can do (except for the Tamron lens) by testing first the camera body and then, each lens for focus accuracy; however, if/when a focus problem is present it is usually constant (i.e. a lens would constantly back/front focus). Since your Tamron seems to have focused properly on the box test I would again look elsewhere for possible causes before sending your camera to Canon.

[sparkie]

Thanks Kev/Mark..

[-o9ewurpoqewur-e8wqu]

Sandra I had the same problem and sent the original 20d body back to B&H. Blurry and soft pictures, they sucked. I had the 10d before and NEVER had sharpness problems out of the camera. I just received my new 20d body and although it is better, it still seems softer. I boosted the sharpness in parameters to the max, and am doing tests now. When I look at my menu screen my aeb bracketing goes from -1 to +2, which should be -2 to +2, so I know at least that is out of whack on my camera. But... I just got the damn thing back and don't want to send this camera back to B&H too. I'm very confused after having 3 GREAT years with my 10d I cannot get happy with the 20d. chris

[picturesque]

On your sample photo, it looks to me like the point of focus is on the couples' far shoulders, as Paul pointed out. When using wider f-stops, you have to be sure to focus carefully--letting the camera set your focus points won't work. Also, the actual focus point is bigger than the the marked red squares in the viewfinder, so sometimes the focus point snags on an adjacent area that you don't expect. Focus-recompose can also cause problems with wide apertures, as Beau pointed out. And, there's just using too wide an aperture for the depth of field needed. For the shot with the older gentleman, you probably needed a smaller f-stop than f2.8. Sometimes, if you use AI Focus or AI Servo, the focus slips without your being aware of it--be careful when using these focusing modes. It can help to assign auto focusing to the * button and use One Shot until you are very good with focusing.

 

Also, if you are shooting RAW, the parameter settings have no effect, and sharpening should be done in post processing, but this does not seem to be your problem based on your samples. If shooting jpegs, no sharpness parameter setting will help you if the focus point isn't in the right place.

 

I don't doubt that there are softer copies of Tamron lenses out there and I have heard lots about back/front focusing with Canon and non-Canon lenses, making me quite leery when I got my 20D with some lenses. I did my tests and found no problems. My lenses seem to focus pretty much right on, even wide open and that includes the 50mm f1.4, which I've heard have some problems in this area. I did run into the focus point snagging on adjacent high contrast areas, though. My opinion only--while there are some legitimate problems with back/front focusing, I think many are not, and far too many bodies and lenses are being sent into Canon for adjustment for the wrong reasons. Before sending in your equipment and or just getting a new body, I would review my own focusing methods and see where to improve there first.

 

Last but not least, I have heard that people sometimes have problems with this camera because it has a pretty serious mirror slap and the body is small and light. I did, and I have been photographing weddings for over 20 years. This is not your problem based on your samples, but be aware of this.

[realityrick]

I've had my 20D for two months and was relieved to read that I'm not the only one experiencing focus problems. I sent my 20D + 70-200 2.8 IS USM + 17-85 IS USM to Canon Service Center in NJ. It was returned today, theoretically fixed: "adjusted focus" is all the work order said. But I'm still not happy with the focus on 70-200, especially at the 200 end. I shot some test pix at 1000 shutter speed, which, along with the IS capability, suggests it's not camera shake, right? Has anyone else had problems with this lens? Is it possible that I am not selecting the correct focusing option? I can never get the focus LEDs to align precisely on the subject, so I have taken to using only the center LED, which I realize uses a crosshair focus. But I just don't seem to get the sharpness that I would expect. If anything, it seems that objects slightly to one side or behind where I am focusing are still sharper than the subject. This is precisely the problem I described to Canon Svc Center, but now that they say it is adjusted, I'm at a loss. Anyone have a suggestion?<div></div>

[picturesque]

In the Canon Viewer software, I think you can see where the actual focus point is. I'd check that and see where it was on this shot. What were your actual settings? Seems to me the trees in back are in focus. I'd do the test without the IS on a tripod and don't focus and recompose.

[jose_marin]

Hello everyone,

 

I own the Tamron 28-75mm and also the Canon 70-200 F4 L lens, as well as others. I too had problems with the "sharpness" of the lens and I wound up sending the lenses and camera body (20D) to Canon. They said they had to calibrate the camera to the lenses. Guess what, the Canon looked a lot better than when I bought it by the Tamron went out completely. The answer: Adjustments were made for the Canon but no specs were available for the Tamron. Also, guess what, lenses designed for DSLRs seem to be sharp (right on the money) while all other lenses are hit/miss. I was not happy with the results and thanks to buying my camera at Best Buy, was able to return the camera and change it for a brand new one. Now, the Tamron, again, is sharp as a tack and on this camera, the Canon 70-200mm F4/L seems to be just as good as the calibration made by Canon on the other body. You can come to your own conclusions, but this is a fact. Also, I do want to make mention that the customer support I got from Canon was top notch and just because of that service, I will continue to purchase Canon equipment. They did very well by me...JD

[paul -]

Rick's photo is obviously focused behind the man's head, even though he placed the AF point on the face.<p>It's important to know that the AF sensors are larger than the little blocks in the viewfinder, and that the actual AF sensor will lock on to the area of highest contrast, even if it is outside the marked little block. It's possible Rick's AF locked onto the nice clean vertical and horizontal lines of the siding and/or fence behind the subject.<p>The attached image shows how much larger a 10D's AF sensors are then the marked areas in the viewfinder. I assume the 20D is very similar.<div></div>

[realityrick]

I think I'm beginning to understand--that chart was a big help. And I certainly notice that highlights and areas of higher contrast seem to come out sharper than intended subject. Is there a workaround? Is there a focusing scheme that works best, ie, always use center LED only or...? Anyone have a favorite, ie, most predictable methodology for focusing?

Completely agree with comments about Canon Service--I got tremendous service from Powershot S40 and recent 20D problem. They are very responsive.<div></div>

[marymac]

Sandra - I am having the same problem with a 20D, Tamron 28-75 and a Canon 70-200 f/4 so I'm curious whether the second 20D body you got from the camera shop fixed the focusing problem you were having? I'm considering sending my 20D and 70-200 to Canon for calibration but I need to do more serious testing with the chart that Mark mentioned before I do so. Could you let us know what happens with 20D number 2? Thanks - Mary

[picturesque]

I have heard about specific back focusing problems with the 70-200 f4, so if you have that lens, a trip to Canon may be in order. As for the Tamron, I would think you'd have to send the body and lens to Tamron, since Canon won't be able to do anything about that lens. I have heard that people have to sometimes go through several lenses to find one that works well with their camera body.

[marymac]

Yes, depending on how these tests come out this evening I'll send the camera and 70-200 lens to Canon. Then if it comes back working I'll retest the Tamron and send the body and lens to Tamron if needed. What a pain in the neck!

[picturesque]

Here is the info about the 70-200 f4 that I read.

 

http://emedia.leeward.hawaii.edu/frary/canon_ef70-200usm.htm

[marymac]

Thanks for the info Nadine. Rather discouraging though! It sounds like many people have had to send stuff to Canon for calibration. Should I send the lens AND the body, or just the lens? I hate being without my camera....

[picturesque]

Unfortunately, Canon will ask for both since they do supposedly calibrate the lens to the body. If you can return the Tamron, you might want to exchange the lens to try out another copy. That way, if the Canon calibration works, you will have a good Tamron lens to go with that body.

[picturesque]

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than me would respond to Rick's question, but since no one has, I'd have to say that you have to determine if there really is a problem with the lens. If you don't have a problem with the lens, then the re-read the guidelines that I summarized above in my first post (many others brought up the same points previous to the post).

[realityrick]

Thanks for your help, Nadine. I've not yet loaded the Canon software as I'm always too anxious to check the shots and go straight from the disk to Photoshop. Didn't even realize you could check the focus point using sw so will give it a go this weekend, but after extensive testing I honestly think I'm going to dump the whole rig on E-Bay and return to Nikon. I was a Nikon man for 20 years (film only) before jumping into the digital SLR world with 20D, and I'm feeling very discouraged with the results. I think the lens and camera are probably functioning as well as they can, especially after being calibrated at the svc center, but if you can't rely on pinpoint focusing accuracy, it's just too stressful.<div></div>