10D: Why No RAW Capability for Dummy Modes?

[aaron_johnston]

I've used a 10D for a while now and shoot mostly in auto or one of the

preset dummy modes Canon includes on the dial. I do this because I'm

an amateur. Anyhow, why is it that the 10D will not allow saving in

RAW from these modes? If there's a way around this, please let me

know. If there is NOT a workaround for this, can someone tell me if

the 20D also works the same way?

[pjmeade]

The 20D has the same default setting, no RAW for the basic modes.

 

On the 20D, you can get RAW in the P setting in the creative zone and effectively that is green mode with the ability to change the settings. I don't know if the 10D is the same.

 

But why restict yourself to just the basic modes? Experiment, have fun!

 

Best wishes. Peter

[PuppyDigs]

P mode on the 10D is exactly like Full Auto (green retangle), but can be tweaked with

program shift, EC, CFs and various AF and metering modes. Oh, and you have to pop up

the flash

yourself when needed. If you don't touch any of the tweaks, you'll never know the diff

between it and Full Auto.

 

Canon implimented the Basic modes with the 1991 Elan and hasn't changed the design

philosophy since: no manual overrides, options or custom functions in basic mode. I guess

they figure if you know enough to want these other features, you'll be brave enough to

cross the great abyss and twist the command dial to P.

[wingedrabbit]

It's digital. Go wild. Be bold. I started out in "P" and ventured into "Av" and eventually "M" mode. It's digital after all. If the pictures are crappy, just erase them.

 

Tom

[phule]

<< I do this because I'm an amateur. >>

 

Why should being an amateur prevent you from using any mode outside of the presets?

[steve_dunn2]

<p>The idiot modes are for people who want point-and-shoot, no-brain-required simplicity. RAW doesn't fit that philosophy. Idiot modes are there so you can pick one, take the picture, and take the flash card (or film, since as was already pointed out the idiot modes first appeared on film cameras well over a decade ago) to the local one-hour photo store and never have to use your brain. RAW files need processing so they don't fit this workflow.</p>

 

<p>If you want to have control over the processing (i.e. picking appropriate parameters for converting the RAW file, and maybe doing some editing in your favourite image editing program), then take control over your shooting as well. The idiot modes do nothing that you can't do quite easily in the "creative zone" modes. For instance, portrait mode is basically a combination of two settings: a wide aperture (which you can easily set in Av mode) and continuous drive (which you can easily set with the DRIVE button).</p>

 

<p>I'm also an amateur; I've been using SLRs since 1980 and have only ever once sold any shots (and that was by accident; someone saw some holiday photos on my Web site, wanted to use them for a presentation to a seniors' group or something like that, and insisted on paying me slightly more than what it cost me to send her copies). On my EOS film bodies, I only used idiot modes if I was going to hand the camera to someone else. On my 20D, I don't ever plan on using idiot modes due to the no-RAW-file limitation; I'll just set the thing up in P mode before handing it over.</p>

[amir_jahanshahi]

I do agree with Aaron though. I am personally a Nikon user but have tried my friends 20D and like it very much. But I don't see any reason to not allow RAW file capture in Auto modes. There are cases where you just want to set the mode quickly for a certain environment even if you are not an amateur but yet want the post production flexibility of RAW. With regards to not letting the user mess things up by accidentally selecting RAW, I understand this argument but it could be built to reset back to JPEG each time the mode dial is changed. This way you have the option of setting it for a specific shoot but each time you turn off the camera or change the mode it would go to JPEG. Also in all honesty, a user that is so armature they can?t figure out how to open a RAW file later and convert to JPEG (in the event they did accidentally set RAW mode) in my opinion should not be buying an Advanced SLR like the 20D. They should be in the Rebel market and for that camera I can see restricting RAW may be a little more acceptable.

[aaron_johnston]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to try out the P mode on my next outing. For the most part, I tend to stick with auto modes because I don't use the camera often enough to create a steady learning curve for myself (nor do I have the time to take classes to become a learned photographer.) I use it seldom and need good results often.

 

I am thankful to digital technology for allowing me even this far into photography. I don't know that I agree with everything in Steve's "idiot mode" debate; I'm not sensitive to semantics but I also don't feel that these modes were created for abject dunderheads who don't want to use their brains. I took the following pic on an "idiot" mode setting (w/ Canon 28-135 IS) and am pleased with it nonetheless.

 

http://www.endustry.com/blogpics/balletwindow.jpg

[amir_jahanshahi]

Yes, Aaron, that's my point too. I don't believe these are necessarily just modes intended for people that have no idea how to use a camera. That is certainly one of the benefits they provide. But they are really just convenient combinations of settings that you can switch to quickly if you need to. Whether it is because it's a spur of the moment shot or that you want to remove your self of the details for some casual shooting OR as you mentioned Steve, for people you haven't gotten the hang of doing things in the less "Automatic" modes yet and so need some support from the camera.

 

But feel comfortable that you are not the only person wondering why you should be restricted from setting the file format in any mode. I know three 20D owners and they are all frustrated by this feature. I am not trying to make this a Canon vs Nikon debate as I love both the 20D and my D70, however the D70 does let you select any file format in any mode. I have my D70 always set to Raw no matter which mode I am in. And since the D70 is an even more main stream, lower priced consumer camera (consequently likely to be purchased by more "less" experienced users) than the 20D, you would think you would be hearing people complaining all the time that they messed up their shots because they accidentally left the camera in RAW mode. However I have not heard this at all.

 

But also as Peter mentioned, you can make changes to the P mode though P and Auto don't quite work the same. There are differences in the way the camera evaluates the scene and selects settings for you.

 

What I want to really know is why don't manufacturers add another notch or two to the settings mode where you can customize your own "modes" for fast access to a set of settings with the turn of the dial. That's a feature I would like. But that's a whole different topic :)

 

Either way, get to know your camera, it doesn't take much and you don't need to go fully manual. Just start playing with and get to know the Aperture priority mode alone, and it will open up a whole set of new creative options for you.

 

Happy Shooting! :)