Upgrading to an MP?... or M7

[felix_erazo]

Here is a question you folks might help enlighting me. Now, Is the MP

a much better camera than the M6? aside from the revised viewfinder in

which leica made some modifications with the contrast isuues, Isn't

the camera basicaly the same as an M6?

 

The M7 is a whole different issue with it's AE priority mode; so, my

question to you on the M7 is this.

 

Since using an M7, has it made you a quicker shooter than using the M6

or MP?

 

Thanks

[SolaresLarrave]

I'd phrase this dychotomy as an issue of AE vs. manual setting of the camera.

 

Personally, I don't think the MP is any better than any other Leica. Some may argue that the improved viewfinder and use of brass makes it "better", but, in truth, both, the M6 and the MP are reliable photographic tools. In this situation, your "upgrade" wouldn't be strictly so, but rather buying a newer, more expensive camera to replace an old one.

 

Now, about using an M7 (which I don't have, but I have used AE in other cameras in the past), I don't think it would make me necessarily a quicker shooter. I spend too much time composing anyway.

[terence_mahoney1]

If you can quell your compulsion to spend for another few months you may be able to buy either of those cameras for substantially less than present. Once the M-Digital is available for purchase the demand for a new M7 or MP will execute a vertical dive whilst concurrently the second-hand market will be flooded with rarely-touched examples, for it will not be those who've scrimped for an M6 who first rush to purchase the M-Digital but rather those who have bags of disposible cash, i.e. those who've bought a new MP or M7 to have and to hold.

[rich815]

Terence, I doubt that very much.

[EricM]

"I'd phrase this dychotomy as an issue of AE vs. manual setting of the camera."

 

Me too. AE is wonderful and I'd take a M7 over MP anyday. Yes it's quicker, you have less settings to make from the same metering outcome. It's nice to quickly bang one off at f5.6, f8, f11 and move on. Automation is nice, you'll miss way less shots.

[john_shriver]

DAG can upgrade your finder, it's a matter of adding one lens.

[uk]

"Once the M-Digital is available for purchase the demand for a new M7 or MP will execute

a vertical dive whilst concurrently the second-hand market will be flooded with rarely-

touched examples, "

 

I agree with your prediction that volumes of new M7 and MP's will reduce substantially as I

suspect the buyer of new bodies will transfer to the digital.

 

However, there are a number of events that might frustrate a drop in used prices :

 

- the rich owner is less likely to have the Photoshop skills. Nothing will drag a film camera

out of some 76 year old hands.

 

- wealthy owners may keep there M7's as back-ups as the lenses will fit.

 

- Many digital users may grab the opportunity to buy Leica MP's/M7's as they become

frustrated with their digital depreciation.

 

- If fewer new M7/MP's are entering the market, where are the film users back-up bodies

coming from? Prices will rise if Leica ceases production.

 

- A priority for Leica may be to support existing owners with a digital solution. If you can

put an 8 mb system in a phone, is it beyond the wit of man to do it in a 4"x2.5"x1/4" Leica

accessory? Inter-changeable DMR/M. Doubtful I suspect, but what an attractive product

that would be.

 

I sold my Nikon DSLR last week and today bought an MP to go with my M3 and 35/50mm

ASPH Summicrons. They may not match the convenience of the DSLR at the download

stage, but in many other ways they show a clean pair of heels to a DSLR.

 

Obvoiously, we don't know if there will be a digital M, so all this is playing the speculation

game. You may well be right. Hope not !

[uk]

Felix,

 

No, it usually takes less than 1/8th second with either !

 

Seriously, auto exposure is quicker if you allow it to control the settings, but most images

have adequate time to allow a reading/adjustment.

 

What proportion of all good Leica images have been made on autoexposure since the M7

was released - 5% / 9% ..... ??

[luigi v]

Terence, I doubt that too...

Felix, I own both an M7 and an MP and I also used an M6 until recently.

They all are great cameras, but, even if I choose to use the M7 more often for its AE and, as

Eric says, its quick response to most shooting situations, when I do use the MP I feel that the

camera is somehow better built, it feels (and it looks) stronger, in a word better made and

better looking than both M7 and M6.

Should I really choose between the MP and the M7 I would keep the MP.

Should I be on a budget I would go for the M6, pictures quality would be the same for all

cameras I reckon, it's the lenses that would make a difference.

[felix_erazo]

My point exactly, Francisco. I own 2 Fantastic M6's, I don't think i would sell one of them for an MP. Aside from the viewfinder modification,I just think the MP is just the same as an M6 unlees someone here thinks otherwise, and can tell us how much different it is. Now, I can see selling one of my M's for an M7 only for the AE feature.

[anhtu]

I use an M6TTL at the moment and at times (not that often) I struggle to focus because the double image does not appear (I've had this problem since I owned the camera). Is this the flaring issue that has been fixed in the MP upgrade? Unfortunately, I don't have an MP or know anyone who has one to compare. Can those who have these 2 cameras or has upgraded a M6 to have the MP viewfinder let me know if it fixes this problem?

 

When I encounter this problem - I rotate the camera a bit until the double image eventually show and as you can tell - it takes precious time. The viewfinder has been recently CLA too (3 months ago).

[Bill Blackwell Images]

"Isn't the [MP] camera basically the same as an M6?"

 

Yes - the differences are almost all aesthetic.

 

1. The MP has a brass top cover - The M6 top is zinc alloy

 

2. The MP has the M2/3 style RW knob - The M6 has the M4/7 style

 

3. The MP knobs/advance lever are the M3/2 style - The M6 has the M4/7 style

 

4. The black MP is black paint (designed to rub-off) - The M6 is black chrome

 

5. The MP has no red dot

 

6. Different body coverings

 

7. The MP has a slightly more sensitive meter (it may gain you about a stop in low lighting) with three diodes - two red arrows on either side with a dot in the center. The M6 has two diodes (both light up with proper reading - no center dot).

 

That's about it...

[jati_lindsay]

MP all day....

[bill_schneider1]

>>Yes - the differences are almost all aesthetic.

 

I recall that Leica made statements that parts of the gear train had been slightly changed to smooth the action a bit.

 

I have an M6, an M6TTL, and an MP. The MP is the smoothest of all of them by a fair amount, although my well-worn and serviced M6 isn't that far behind.

 

To somewhat quantify the difference, when I switch from my M6 to my MP, I often have to double-check the rewind knob for movement to see if I really have film loaded. The film advance action is noticeably smoother and lighter on the MP and acts like the M6 with no film loaded.

 

Having said that, I reach for the M6 when I'm shooting fast and have to rewind quickly. Can't beat the crank rewind for speed! (Unless it's a motor, of course)

 

Bill Schneider

[blakley]

Terence has lost his mind.

 

I like the MP better than the M6 for three "and a half" reasons:

 

1. The meter diodes are much easier to use with the addition of the "correct exposure" circle.

 

2. The meter is slightly more sensitive.

 

3. I like the M3 style rewind knob better than the M6 rewind crank.

 

3 1/2. The shutter speed dial turns "the right way", like the original

M6 but unlike the M6 TTL.

[blakley]

Oops. I forgot #4 - the MP viewfinder is less prone to flare than that of the M6. Tyler Vance and I performed a controlled, side-by-side test of this with my MP and his M6 in Ireland, and we both agreed that the difference was dramatic in situations where the M6 is prone to flare (which are admittedly not all that common).

[miguel_curbelo]

Just get whichever you think looks prettier, they'll both perform only as well as yourself.

[terence_mahoney1]

<i>Terence has lost his mind.</i></p>You're the one who posted the non-sequitur reply, not I.

[Bill Blackwell Images]

"I recall that Leica made statements that parts of the gear train had been slightly changed to smooth the action a bit."

 

Yes, that's true. Especially note: "slightly changed." I have an MP and an M6 and I have trouble feeling the difference most of the time.

 

I also forgot to mention the cheesy new MP eyepiece design, which conveniently invites dust into the rangefinder. This (IMHO) almost completely balances against any of the "upgrades."

 

There is, of course, also the MP condenser lens (helps prevent RF patch white-out), which was replaced in the finder - it was removed halfway into the M4-2 production.

[eliot_rosen1]

I'm not sure I would consider going from an M6 to an MP as much of an upgrade. The specs of the two are almost the same, except for the increased meter sensitivity of the MP compared to the earlier M6's and the improved VF relative to flare.

 

The M7 is definitely an upgrade in a number of respects: 1) availability of AE, 2) more precisely timed shutter, 3) display showing shutter speed in the VF in AE mode. That is in addition to the advantages described for the MP. I could also mention the availability of high speed synchronization with certain flash units, although that is a minor feature to me.

 

To me, the main difference between an M6 and an MP is that the MP is prettier. It's definitely all gussied up. :-)

[rich815]

<i>"...

I also forgot to mention the cheesy new MP eyepiece design, which conveniently

invites dust into the rangefinder..."</i><p>

 

My understanding is that was only in the early MP's and was fixed for free under warranty. Amazing you find so easily fixable an issue as a balance against other different and significant improvements. I'll take a little dust that is fixed easily and for free vs. RF flare-out any day.

[les_lammers]

Amazing! Everyone is in agreement. Uh....what was the question?

[Bill Blackwell Images]

"My understanding is that was only in the early MP's and was fixed for free under warranty."

 

Every MP has this problem and although Leica will seal the eyepiece under Passport, the issue is an inferior design over every Leica M that preceded it.

 

"Amazing you find so easily fixable an issue as a balance against other different and significant improvements."

 

All of the "improvements" are listed somewhere in this thread and, IMO, none of them are significant.

 

"I'll take a little dust that is fixed easily and for free vs. RF flare-out any day."

 

The flair issue in every Leica M since the M4-2 (about mid-production) can be upgraded for about $150 through DAG or some other Leica technician. That's hardly worth over twice the price of a like new M6.

 

Let me clarify something: I do own an MP and like it very much. I am only saying there is no significant difference between it and an M6 classic, which I also own and like very much.

[jati_lindsay]

what i love about my mp is that, given the amount of times, most all inopportune, that ive had my rewind mechanism jam or break for some reason, at least i now have a body that i can be resonably certain that its gonna get me through a shoot. even if rewinding is a little slower. feels good knowing you have a body that nothing's probably gonna break on.

[les_lammers]

Felix,

 

If you have an M6 and want AE, I suggest you check consider adding a ZI and keeping the M6. It has a great finder, as good and brighter than my .58 MP. The shutter speed dial turns the same direction as the M6 classic. The shutter is very quiet and the meter is quite accurate. It does not have DX coding (I like that) the latch for the back will not easily open accidentally and the controls are very intuitive. The AE is nice, especially in fast changing light.

 

I got a limited edition, whatever that means, from Tony Rose at Popflash for $1316 delivered. Durabilty, longevity? I dunno. It seems very well made.

 

YMMV,

 

Les