DuncanBowers Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Hi Brian,I read in a recent post that you occassionally think about getting rid of the forum. Please dont. For me i use it as a re-invigorating place. When i see how much time some people have to write so much rubbish on such trivial matters it reminds me how lucky we are to be alive in the 21st Century. Only a great civilisation has the time for the spurious!thanks for the great work.Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben conover Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I agree, more forums the better. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 The fact that it's full or crap isn't really a good reason to keep it. Unless you subscribe to the "Jerry Springer" school of thought - then the worse it is, the better the entertainment. Trouble is, this isn't supposed to be entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_sullivan Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 actually all the bickering and what not in the forums is a good thing. It refreshing to see some one take a stand on what they believe in..........whatever they believe in. Even if I don't agree with what they say, I defend their right to say it.............gee, now where did that idea ever come from..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Yeh. After wading though crap for an hour or so I always feel SO refreshed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witam Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 In my opinion a forum gets people talking, gets unexpected friendships going and really makes a backbone for a thriving community. Sure everyone has asked or asks stupid questions or giving irrelevant replies at one time. It happens, it's life. We're all humans, not perfect beings. If you get fed up with that, you will not bother coming back. Most come back because they get something out of it: maybe it is to laugh at some of the questions, replies, maybe it is because they have a question, or they want to help. Whatever it is that makes them come back, is a valid reason and another reason not to close the forums. Coming back means that something here provides an answer to a need inside that person, and it would be a shame to loose that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kai_griffin Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Bob Atkins suggested: <i>The fact that it's full or crap isn't really a good reason to keep it.</i><p> On the contrary, I reckon the fact that it's full of crap is a very good indicator that it is doing a good job: without the protective "dam" that is the Site Feedback Forum, all that sewerage will flood into the other forum groups on PN; ratings-related histrionics will start to appear in any of a dozen different groups (and some of those groups have their own problems already!). The Site Feedback forum should no sooner be removed than the sewer running below your own street.<p>So, as tiresome as it must be for the good moderators here to wade through the feces in this most fetid canal, please be aware that it serves a jolly good function in keeping colera outbreaks down in other groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I don't want to push the analogy too far, but in general, sewers are hidden from public view. To put it more mildly, garbage has to be dealt with, but it doesn't have to be a public spectacle. Luckily (for some), it's not my site and I don't set policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_sullivan Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 wading thru crap is a result of a free exchange of ideas. Not everyones ideas are compatible with everyone else. If they were, you would have this homoginized opinion that would be the same every time you tuned in. Oh, the subject might be different, but the philosophy behind the discussion would be the exact same, every time. You'de know all the answers before they were even given. Take top 40 radio.............no problems, everything is the same. Songs are different only in title and words, but it's the same boring formula over and over and over again. Now, go to a really good college station, where the students have the over all say in the play list.......and you have to sit thru a lot of crap. But, when you get to something that really makes sense to you, that diamond in and amongst all the bilge, it's the most outrageous music one has ever heard. I know, I have shelves full of the stuff. Art, and the opinions and ideas, that fuel some of the best art, just is like that. Be it music, or photography, or painting, it's those outrageous ideas and end results that are the best of the lot. Yes, you have to sit thru what seems like hours of crap to get five minutes of pure gold.............but IMHO...........it's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 We do get a fair number of email messages and posts in which basically people say "I was happily participating in the Gallery and then I stumbled upon the Site Feedback forum and read all the posts complaining about mate-raters, drive-by raters, bots, etc, etc, which I never knew existed before. Then I got discouraged". The Site Feedback forum seems to have developed into a permanent picket line outside the home office, with different competing groups doing chants and holding up signs, keeping the cops busy to clear the sidewalks. It might be entertaining for some people who stroll by, but I suspect that it is also a marketing disaster for the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanBowers Posted May 19, 2005 Author Share Posted May 19, 2005 Can you not just assign a moderator to delete the types of posts that you refer to? This forum, despite my earlier flippancy, is very usefull, but i can totally understand the negatives that it causes; i also have become a little cynical of the site since reading about so many scams being performed...things i hadn't noticed before reading them here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smooch Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 People like to complain...........its natural.............but if they have to pay to do it, it cuts out most, (if not all) of the worst offenders....!!<p> Make those who want to be negative pay for the privilege and only those who pay can read the negative.....this way your site appears as a positive marketing entity. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnital Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 The feedback forum is a good place for some people to take out steam...The principal role in the "show" is the rating system.. Why elliminate the stage?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich815 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I agree with Brian. Close it down! What good is it doing, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Brian, I think that the openness and honesty of this forum is a marketing advantage for this site. It promotes self expression and free speech. However silly the threads may get, and however much people may disagree with the points raised, it is an expression of how passionate our members are about this photo.net, and photography in general. This can never be a bad thing! People just have to remember that there are many other forums to visit, oh and of course there are the photographs! If you close the feedback thread, the complaints will just spill over into the other "clean" forums, and clogg them up no end. Keep all the crap in the sewer, and you will have a cleaner and healthier town! Regards, Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 P.S. Just as you can choose not to uncover the manhole and explore the sewer, visiting this forum is by no means compulsory! If people don't like what is written here, why do they visit? Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 A PROFESSIONAL WARNING As a psychiatrist, I feel the need to advise you not to try and supress peoples rage and displeasure. It will only manifest itself in less healthy ways. I suspect that there will be an increase in rude comments left on people's portfolios and photographs, and there will probably be an increase in "revenge" behaviour, which we would all be upset by. Venting fustration is very healthy. Supressed rage, or denial is exceedingly pathological! Dr Nicholas Pice BSc MB BS MRCPsych. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammm Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I suspect many of the comments made here would find another home if this forum were not here. Still, it would be nice to order the conversation a bit more and avoid some of the repetition. I see discussions that I think are likely very useful to the site admins (for example, the question about whether to have a cell-phone camera forum), other ones that may save you guys some time (e.g., when someone else answers a bunch of questions someone has) and give people a feeling of participation, and then others that we can all predict from the beginning but occassionally have a useful nugget buried among the vitriol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnital Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Nick, coming from a relatively close area to yours I agree with your professional point of view. I read the forum threds because there are some good discussion some times, and information which is useful, but there are some subjects that are repetition after repetition, so maybe it will be a good idea of the moderators to turn people that are repiting a subject already discussed to a link or links on the repited subjects. cheers Pnina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappoldt Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Well, let's take a look-see. We've got 40+ forums on this site, not including the critique forum. Mostly positive stuff going on in all of those. And, I might suggest, those positive stops on the Photo.net rail line are likely the most-frequented, and certainly they're mostly enjoyed? Now too, under the "Community" heading, there's a Site Feedback forum, where the disgruntled do appear, certainly. Where else is there to offer a complaint about non-abuse matters? But also a lot of ligitimate questions appear here, and they're sometimes ones that many site members have. As photo.net does not produce a weekly/monthly email to its subscribers informing them of updates, it's really the only place here to find such answers. Heck, a few strings above this one, the Site's Managing Editor even found a place to ask a question re a new forum's possible birth, looking for member feedback. As for "quite a few" people discovering this forum and its complaints about Gallery rating abuse and it's yanking of them from the blissful ignorance that everything was kosher there re rating practices, at least from my observations it's a far cry less in number than the people that notice it on their own. Personally, I didn't even find it until after a year had passed...I was (and still am) very busy getting the most out of the site's other areas. ..and even though I'd found it and all its negativity, I still paid up for a subscription without hesitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_thorlin Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Nicholas - I have this recurring dream - no seriously, I take on board your comments on anger etc. but does it have to be accompanied by pretty serious personal abuse which is frequently seen on this site ? Is it not better to relieve anger by hitting a squash ball or throwing your mobile 'phone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcalvo Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I completely agree with Nick. As for the bad marketing concern, I believe that this forum evidences the transparency of the website's policies. It must be very difficult for Brian to have to deal with all the crap. In fact he doesn't have to do it but he actually does. So it shows his courage, compromise and comitment towards this community. Thanks Brian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 <em> It might be entertaining for some people who stroll by, but I suspect that it is also a marketing disaster for the site</em> <p> I agree. <p> My solution would be to make this a "read only" forum. You can post feedback, but it wouldn't be open for discussion. Site administrators could reply - and/or delete the threads - and perhaps forum moderators could also respond - but the peanut gallery would not have the opportunity to constantly nit-pick and snipe. <p> If site administration wanted user feedback on a particular issue, threads inititated by site administrators (i.e. Brian) could be made open for responses by all users. <p> The answers to threads would be authoritative and would form a usable FAQ. <p> Hopefully we'd end up with something that more resembled the PBS nightly news than the Jerry Springer show. This is NOT supposed to be "entertainment". I can't think of any other website that encourages users to complain about it in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_sullivan Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 actually, Bob, much to my own surprise, my cable/internet provider, Comcast, has such a forum for their subsribers to vent their opinions about Comcast. This forum, and most other forums on photo net pale in comparison to some of the comments made about Comcast on their own site. Although you do have to be a subscriber to see them. even Dell has a forum for users to vent about some of Dell's choices in equipment. I've seen some bashing of Dell myself with regards to their monitor and hard drive choices put in their packages. This is fully open to the public, or at least a free no obligation register system. If anything should be done, the feedback forum could be made available only to registerred people (ie a valid password).........not just anyone passing by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnital Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Chris, you are right that there are many good forums at PN, it does not contradict the fact that the feedback forum has many repited subjects (that sometimes are developing to personal accusation) that were discussed time and again. There are questions asked by new subscribers that were already discussed , so it may be a good idea to turn them to the discussed links. It may be a good idea as well to publish a weekly/ monthly bulletin with news, and updates of changes at the site .I know people here, that don't understand some new changes that were done lately.Improvement of comunication canfor sure bring good results. Pnina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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