Have you given up (or almost) the medium format photography ?

[gary_ferguson1]

"do you have the sources to support that view that says the decline in film sales is accelerating, and is significantly beyond even the most pessimistic industry forecasts of two years ago?"

 

Les, good question, maybe the data I've seen is out of date. I'll post a question to this forum and see if we can independent and up to date information.

[gary_ferguson1]

Most of my photography is with a Phase One back on Hassy V cameras, but there's three reasons why I haven't abandoned film completely.

 

Firstly, infra red.

 

Secondly, black and white prints. There's still no inkjet paper that gives quite the same look as air dried, fibre based, glossy silver prints. Inkjets get closer every year, but they're not there yet.

 

Thirdly, a negative is an "historical document" in the way that a digital file never will be. I want my grandchildren and great grandchildren to have at least some negatives, so they'll see family members and family occasions as they really were, without suspecting there was some Photoshop cosmetic surgery along the way.

[fotograaf1957]

Gary, Just to address the issue of Infrared, there are plenty of digital cameras that are sensitive to IR. It can be loads of fun to shoot IR with a digital camera.

 

http://dpfwiw.com/ir.htm read a bit about it here.

[john_layton]

Could it be that digital is actually beginning to be a driving force in film sales?

[vet 57]

I shoot mainly 120 slides to project, and would rather give up 35mm than M/F if I had to make the choice.

[shutay]

It is a bit worrisome that the number of shops selling and processing medium and large format are reducing dramatically, but from where I'm standing it seems even where I live it will most likely reduce/consolidate down to just one or 2 shops in the capital, it still means I can continue shooting medium and large format.

 

I shot 6x6 handheld with flash at a friend's son's one year old birthday party a couple of weeks ago. 3 rolls there. Last weekend I shot another 2 rolls of Kodak T400CN. That's 5 rolls in only 4 weeks, and I just loaded another roll into my Bronica.

 

As another poster said, medium format digital is still so prohibitively expensive. For the moment that makes film + scanner so much more affordable.

[Ed_Ingold]

Les,

 

CIPA projects that film sales will decline 62% during the year 2006 compared to 2005 (http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1158601458.html). This figure probably is dominated by consumer 35mm sales for P&S camera. Medium format usage is so low that it hardly counts against this figure, even if it were steady. However, if total sales drop much more, facilities to make or process film will close, taking medium format film with it. It probably will happen suddenly. Do you remember the day (not month) that vinyl records disappeared from the shelves, beta video, vhs video (last month), vacuum tubes (1981)?

 

I went out this weekend to capture some early Fall color, with a D2x and an Hasselblad in tow. If I were alone (and my wife not tapping her foot in the car), I would have used both. The decision would have been emotional, rather than based on results. I find that the D2x is nearly as sharp as the Hasselblad in a 16x24 enlargement, and has less "grain" in the bargain. I guess I'm holding out for an affordable digital back (or a reasonable justification) rather than bail out at garage-sale prices.

[Ed_Ingold]

Les,

 

Check the shelve in your local grocery store or pharmacy. B&H is continually out of stock. The list goes on. Camera sales track well with film sales, so the figures are still valid. On the professional side, DSLRs that seriously challenge medium format quality are within financial reach of most. I don't wish it so, but the handwriting is on the wall.

[chris_waller]

No, I'm shooting more MF than ever and mnay of my students who have just recently finished an introductory B+W course using 35 mm are asking me about running an MF workshop. About 12-18 months ago there was a lot of used MF gear on the shelves and just recently it has flown off those shelves.

[bob_the_builder1]

This is the MF forum, all you will get here is folks that use film. Personally I am shooting

more and more of the stuff. Go to a digital site like dpreview.com and they will all tell you

film is dead or dying.

[benny_spinoza]

Its nice to see that many still like film. I, too, like film. But just as important, I like manual film cameras, like the Hassy. I WANT to focus, I WANT to set the f-stop, and I WANT to set the shutter speed. I hate automated cameras, with their stupid menu driven controls.

[john_bellenis]

Count me among those who have pretty much stopped shooting film... the last film I shot

was in May (and I write as someone who has spent around $1000.00 a month on

processing and $600.00 a month on film and Polaroid, for the last 25 years).

 

Having shot 4x5, 6x7, 6x6 and 35mm for my work over the last 25 years, I am now

essentially fully digital (MF back and DSLR) and have no regrets. My local pro lab will be

closing their E6 line at the end of the year and they are not alone, they have already cut

down to one run a day instead of continual runs and a 2 hour turnaround.

 

From a creative / imaging point of view, it's no big deal for me - only the capture medium

has changed. All my work ends up in magazines with digital pre press anyway, either that

or in ad agencies design dept's computers for layout and output. All of the creative

considerations (location, models, stylists, hair, make up, composition, lighting) remain

unchanged. Photography is about images, not capture media or equipment.

 

There is much to embrace about shooting digitally also - the ease and no cost option of

providing multiple versions, the ability to try things without commiting Polaroids and film,

the flexibilty afforded by RAW capture and the knowledge that you have the shot when

leaving one location for the next - often eliminating time spent shooting additional

images "to be sure".

 

I have still to see digital prints that match large format black and white silver based

images (not something I do, so this doesn't affect me) - and there is something to be said

for the zen aspects of a day spent in the darkroom (although personally I hope to never

spend one additonal minute in a wet darkroom). All in all though, I am embracing

shooting digitally and my work is either unchanged or the better for it. If I never shoot

another sheet or roll of film, I really won't mind at all. It's been a wonderful ride, I have

loved my 35 year relationship with film (25 professionally) but time moves on and I am

excited to be learning something new and seeing what creative directions this medium

might take me.

 

Whatever you shoot, have fun and keep learning.... John

[ranong]

i will never give up shooting my RB, MF folders, 4X5 or my *x10. they may stop making film, i will just begin to make my own glass negs! if they could do it 100 years ago i can do it now. and then i will print on platinum or palladium. nuff said. i do not intend to ever buy a digital camera....i still have no mobile phone, and my car does not rely on a computer to start and run either.....

 

i do not consider a $5000 DLRS affordable in any way shape of form.

 

what i want to know is why do all the photo.net folks always talk about how fast film is going out and how it is over already....seems to be a bunch of pessimistic folk.

 

eddie

[hobson24]

Is it just me...or are film users just giving up, without a fight, and converting to digital???? I actually went back to film from digital. The quality is just not there. Maybe for most situations, but for mine.. no. It just seems there is this huge loss of hope that film is a tired medium on the the brink of extinction. Im not so sure. There will always be film, just not in the qauntities you are all used to. Remember, all there used to be was film, so there was a surplus, a monopoly. Now theres a contender...and everyone is throwing in the towels. ITS A DIFFERENT MEDIUM!!! It is an electronic representation of reality. A negative of 1's and 0's. Film is a tangible, chemical based medium, so what you see...the film sees. They are both here for different uses. I dont think its a replacement situation. The same debate is going on the cinematography world too. NO one is releasing new film cameras anymore, not Panavision, not ARRI (besides the 235)and they dont foresee building another film camera version. WHY? Film cameras last forever, because they are mechanical, and easily serviced. So their newest film cameras will last beautifully into the late 2000's. The digital cameras are replaced constantly, because it becomes obsolete almost instantly. Its a hot new medium, so everyone is curious to see its limits, but no one thinks it will replace film. These guys are die hards, unlike the still shooters. Horses for courses, I say. Choose what fits the job. Dont think of digital as a replacement medium, but as a companion, an asset to capture a moving emotional scene alongside film, or vice versa. After all, its the image that matters, not how it was captured, or by what camera. No one ever says "thats a beautiful Hasselblad/Nikon/Canon image..." Get it? Just freakin shoot!!!

[gan_esh]

"Eddie Gunks , oct 02, 2006; 09:57 p.m.

i will never give up shooting my RB, MF folders, 4X5 or my *x10. they may stop making film, i will just begin to make my own glass negs! if they could do it 100 years ago i can do it now. and then i will print on platinum or palladium. nuff said. i do not intend to ever buy a digital camera....i still have no mobile phone, and my car does not rely on a computer to start and run either...."

 

Man! If everyone had the same thinking as you, there would be no progress in the world and this beautiful thing we call photography would't exist in the first place.

[ranong]

hey gan esh,

"Man! If everyone had the same thinking as you, there would be no progress in the world and this beautiful thing we call photography would't exist in the first place."

 

you are assuming that all this "progress" is making the world a better place?!?!? HHHMMMMM? maybe i do not understand your definition of better? do you mean better to include all the trash that goes along with this progress? the throw away society that we live in? the commercialism? the lazyness? the violent video games? the injury lawyers? the US govt. violating the bill of rights and the constitution?!?

 

oh! that progress!

 

eddie

[john_bellenis]

LOL - Ray Charles could have seen THAT coming!

[jerry_friedman]

Gosh no! I have just gotten used to using a Mamiya 67 RB and the results, esp. close-ups, are marvellous. I have been using a rollei because it is so portable but i have always liked larger negatives and have used Plaubels, Fujis in the past and have loved these cameras. But the Mamiya is something else. First of all, the equipment is really inexpensive now because so many studio pros have switched to digital. Second, because of bellows focusing, the standard lens takes you as close as about 6 inches without special equipment. Rotating backs is something you have to experience to appreciate. The focusin screen seems a great deal easier to focus than the Rollei, even with a new screen, and the magnifier in the waist level finder is very very good. BUT! ON THE OTHER HAND, the outfit is large and weighs a ton. About five pounds. The camera is very well balanced in the hand so it is easy to hold but it is still heavy. I am going to keep one in my auto in a bag rather than a Rollei and I am going to TRY walking around with one-- I have a strap for it. I am really hoping I can get used to it out of the studio because it is the most amazing camera I have ever used. And that is saying something because I have been in a darkroom for close to 45 years. I am 63 years old and have just fallen in love with the fat girl.

[gan_esh]

Eddie Gunks

"you are assuming that all this "progress" is making the world a better place?!?!? HHHMMMMM? maybe i do not understand your definition of better? do you mean better to include all the trash that goes along with this progress? the throw away society that we live in? the commercialism? the lazyness? the violent video games? the injury lawyers? the US govt. violating the bill of rights and the constitution?!?"

 

Progress = Man landing on the moon, satelite/cable TV, medical science that enabled Lance Armstrong to recover from testicular cancer and compete in the Tour de France, the creation of the camera, Formula 1, Japanese anime, airbags in cars, cure for smallpox, freedom to choose our own religion (most of us, at least), freedom to listen to what music we want, the freedom to vote (most countries) and in this case, the creation of the internet which gives you and me the ability to express our views.

 

yeah, that progress.

[simon_baker]

Hi Les,

I,ve just invested in a Hassie H2 with a... you guessed it "Film back",

bloody awesome if you ask me ( I also use a D1x with 28/70 f2.8 AFS ) , this is MF heaven and when a digital back becomes cheap enough ( I believe thats still several years away ) I will have the system to take advantage of the technology, but right now film still rules unless of course you can splash out 22K ( GBP ) on a H2D 39 megapixel ! Edward, I do not believe film will suddenly die out, it is likely to become a niche market but so what, as long as we support it there will be a market for it even if we lose some emulsions along the way others will remain. My local camera store ( the owner of which I know well ) supplies mainly the "point & shoot happy snapper" because thats where his customer base comes from so naturally he sells mainly digital BUT in the last month he has noticed a big return to film, selling more film last month than he has in the whole of the year so far! Many of his customers who are a bit more advanced ( photographically speaking ) have been buying top quality film SLR's on ebay that previously they could only have dreamed of for silly money and naturally they need film (I myself bought a "mint" F5 a few weeks back for 300 GBP ) to use in the cameras, also many are thrilled with how well these film cameras are made ( Eos1 / F5 / etc ) compared to the digital cameras they own as most cannot afford D2x / Eos1DS. One last thing, vinyl is still available new, yes its a very niche market but its still there and I believe film will be the same.

[Jochen_S]

To me MF means DIY. For drugstore-processed colorfilm happy-snaps I recently fell in love with a pair of Leicas. The use of pro labs is out of my reach and I neither have a neg-scanner nor riged up a darkroom again yet. I tried MF slides once, but well somehow it seems hard to get enough of them together.

 

So yes, my gear seems to be mothballed at the moment. - Will I give up? - No! I really hope to get out off my current depressive mood, find a chance to buy and build what I haven't got yet and get engaged in shooting again and be it only to enjoy a vacation without DSLR.

 

I didn't dream of any digital conversion yet, because the early digibacks weren't offered for Mamiya TLRs.

[simonpg]

CL, I am shooting more 120 film on my Hassy kit than ever before - 1 roll per week plus about 35 rolls a year on special photo trips I make. In fact the digi revolution has enabled me to complete my Hasy lens kit during the last year.

 

Long live 120 roll film!

 

I only wish that I had more time to spend shooting LF, which I got into 2 years ago. The digital era has had huge benefits fo me - significant MF and LF kit cost reduction!

 

And, finally, I have never seen a DSLR 35mm (full frame or otherwise) that can capture the image quality of 120 film, which only makes sense since MF already offered so much more image area than even 35mm film.

[kathleen_fonseca]

i have never contributed to a PhotoNet forum before but there is always a first time. i

started photography 6 years ago with a consumer digicam. i upgraded 4 times and

thought digital was the be-all and end-all of photography. Until i shot my first roll of film

on a Leica. It was love at first sight. Film grain was the most gorgeous visual thrill i had

ever experienced. This year i graduated to MF when i picked up two Bronica systems here

in Costa Rica (square and rectangular formats). i shoot ballet professionally with a D200

but i am increasingly unhappy with the digital "look" of my photos (yes, even in Raw

format). I am also increasingly unhappy with the rediculous obsolescence factor implicit

with digital use. i recently was unable to upload photos to my computer off a newer lexar

card because it didn't match my older reader. Another time a newer card wouldn't work in

my Nikon D70 until it was formatted first in a D200. I don't know about the rest of you,

but this is getting pretty scary, time-consuming and expensive matching camera

technology with flash units, accessories, raw conversion and digital darkroom software,

memory, batteries, chargers, computers, printers. Chasing firmware and driver upgrades

all over the net not to mention the immediate drop in the value of a digital camera as soon

as you plunk down your Visa card to buy the thing. BUT, when i hold the Bronica in my

hand, a feeling of calm, sanity and simplicity returns. And that mood is a really good one

to take shooting. And lugging the Bronica around outdoors is no heavier or more

cumbersome than the D200. i am not trying to make this a digital vs. fim issue because i

use both for different things but when i have my druthers, i shoot MF 70% of the time and

Leica the other 30%.

[dustin_dandrea]

Yeah, I have an APS D-SLR.

 

But I have a RB67 too! Still use it, as someone else said, people are not yet interested in

buying a $500+ photo that's digitally made.

 

Drooling over the Hassy H1/H2 though, thinking about making the jump soon...the RB is

kinda clunky for how I like to shoot (handheld, mainly)

[._._z]

<small><i><blockquote>

 

I shoot less than two rolls of 120 a year. <br>

 

I won't give it up as I am waiting for the "budget" digital back available later.

 

</blockquote> </i> </small><p>

 

Waiting for how long? <p>

 

What price you consider 'budget'?