Keeping up with the Joneses

[rtrace]

Dave,

 

Seems you are getting defensive for no reason really! Nobody here is anti-PS. Just some are not for the overuse of PS, which addresses the original post. That's all.

 

As far as being suspicious of people that talk but don't post, don't forget that this is a public/searchable forum and some (myself included, though I do post samples in threads) don't feel like having clients reading about their business or seeing their pictures used!

 

Bogdan

[uk]

I consider PhotoShop to be a far more significant development for photographers

interested in their images than the development of digital cameras.

 

I acknowledge there is a degree of inter-dependancy, but Photoshop is more essential

IMO. It makes image making available to a much wider audience.

 

It's interesting to ponder whether even 2% of camera users have the programme.

[rtrace]

Yes, but then again the Internet is better still at making things accessible - good or bad!

[picturesque]

Dave--I have no hard feelings about your statements (no apology necessary)--the original ones and the ones you just posted. You are certainly entitled to your opinions, as always. I was just furthering discussion, making some observations and clarifying my statements. I still don't see anything in the statements you quoted that support why you disagree, but no matter--again, you are entitled to state your opinions and agree or disagree. If I mistook your statement, then I'm sorry. I thought "not educated" is "uneducated", etc. And as for not posting anything, I don't post my clients' images for the reasons others have stated. I do appreciate the beautiful work shown by others though, and if someone chooses to ignore any advice or comments I make because I haven't "proven" myself with images, then he or she is free to do so. One can figure out if a person knows what he or she is talking about from what is posted, and especially after reading a few posts from the same person.

[Dave Gardner]

Nadine....I'm glad that you have no hard feelings. But i must tell you that i make no

apology for my second statement.

 

I dislike it when someone takes a statement of mine out of contest...and tries to paint me

in a bad light....it also speaks about someone that doesn't acknowledge their mistake

whether deliberate or other wise.

 

If you can't see in your statement...where i could mistake your meaning....'you portly never

will'. So any further discussion would be fruitless.

 

Paul A.....i also do not seek approval....never have and never will and i also have time

restraints. But if i am going to judge or critique someone's work....at least i have my shots

on the site for those i critique or give advice to. So not having time or for the client

sake....is so lame.

 

Bogdan......i get defensive when people use my statements out of context to paint me in a

bad light. Which is also a reason why I'm suspicious of Nadine.

 

Well that should cover it. Like it or not....i really don't care....lets just move on.

 

Nadine....you have no hard feelings about what i said....then i guess i should forgive you

also for yours.

 

Dave

[fotografz]

Let's be clear Dave, this wasn't your post, it was Ricks. I'm not sure you bothered to read

what HIS thoughts were and how that context shaped responses. Not your context ... HIS.

 

So, without regard to Rick's context, you seemed to think any critique concerning PS

emanates from the uninitiated, or detractors of technological advancement ... which is

massively jumping to conclusions.

 

Rick's reference to PS I responded to was ... "My photographs tend to be uncomplicated. I

don't use gadgets in my work simply because I have them ie. coloring the flowers in a b&w

image just because I can. It has to actually contribute to making a better image before I

will do it." ... thus my thought that people can do PS tricks that will have them wondering

what they were thinking later (something I experienced myself when first learning PS).

 

It's not an uncommon thing to be over zealous with all that PS can do at first ... witness

the use of techniques to smooth out skin that leads to a sheen worthy of Du Pont. Or

images Gaussian blurred to death with parts still showing grain/noise and others as

smooth as a baby's butt. Etc. ad nausium.

 

Comparing Ansel Adams' darkroom techniques to this sort of manipulation is ridiculous.

Adams most likely would have loved the control PS provides ... but I doubt he would have

used it to make isolate a color subject in a B&W background ... or to move a moon rise ...

just because you can.

 

I commiserate with Rick. Having tamed the beast after years of intense practice, I've now

moved onto "less is more" when it comes to the use of Photoshop. Which, like many new

things that come to dominate one's attention ... now fades into the background in favor of

capturing the human condition, and making images that move people rather than have

them exclaim ... "cool, how did you do that?"

[rtrace]

Marc,

 

I keep saying that one of these days you'll be shooting JPEGs! If I could get the WB nailed each time I would be 100% JPEG!

 

Bogdan

[picturesque]

Dave--as mentioned above, no apologies necessary. And I was not trying to "paint you in a bad light" or "score points". I was also not quoting you, but paraphrasing what I thought you meant. If I misunderstood you, then OK, I understand you now although I don't necessarily agree. And you're right, there is no point in hashing over this statement and that, since it does not further Rick's thread. It would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything, but disagreeing is no reason to take things personally, so there is no reason to be suspicious of me as I have no ulterior motives. I don't post my clients' images because this is a public forum, as Bogdan mentioned. It's a privacy issue. That's it.

[fotografz]

Bogdan, not sure what this has to do with this thread, but I've nothing whatsoever against

jpgs.

 

I recently did a commercial job where hundreds of images had to be shot with pin

registration accuracy to create an animated effect on an Avid type editing machine

afterward. We shot jpgs only because of the buffer speed and less demanding image

quality for TV use. It was in highly controlled conditions where we could do a custom white

balance and adjust lights to even out the contrast scene-to-scene.

 

When I used to shoot a Contax ND, I almost exclusively shot jpgs because that camera

didn't provide a LCD review of RAW files. But it had a better dynamic range than my

Canons.

 

I use RAW, and will most likely never use jpgs for wedding work ... and do so for more

than just WB reasons. My workflow is 90% in ACR now including straightening and

cropping. When cropping you can then designate a file size which is the same as all the

other shots ... doing so as you go. When I wish a file for a display print (which is part of

my packages), I can return to the RAW file and designate a much larger file size in RAW

where there is more original image data for interpolation.

 

Once done in ARC I make contact sheets of all the images and send them to the Image

processor for tif or jpg conversion ... Only 10% - 20% of the files are ever opened in PS.

[rtrace]

Marc,

 

"Having tamed the beast after years of intense practice, I've now moved onto "less is more" when it comes to the use of Photoshop. Which, like many new things that come to dominate one's attention ... now fades into the background in favor of capturing the human condition, and making images that move people rather than have them exclaim ... "cool, how did you do that?"".

 

Nothing more than a comment on the above - i.e. less is more. No more PS work, no more ACR work, just shooting! ;) That's all!

 

Bogdan

[fotografz]

You mean like when shooting film Bogdan ... LOL !

 

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[al_kaplan1]

What really seems strange is that folks will pay so much more for a traditional silver gelatin print from a conventional B&W negative. The best thing about it is that it requires no knowledge of photoshop ;-) Then there are the medicinal benefits of getting your hands wet with silver laden fixer (silver has antibiotic qualities).

[35mmdelux]

Relax Dave.

 

Have a Great Day!