How much do you drag your shutter?

[maiken]

I've casually shot a few weddings and social events, and have gotten

good results by heeding advice from PN to expose for -2 stops or so

of the ambient scene, and supplement with flash.

 

I realized this weekend as I was shooting a wedding, though, that I

reflexively keep my shutter speed short enough to avoid subject

blur. That is, I always keep it at 1/50th or faster. This means I

end up using quite high ISOs and wide apertures.

 

My question is, is it necessary for me to keep the shutter this

short? I know the flash is extremely brief and will tend to stop

action, but I'm blending the flash with ambient light, so if I use

shorter shutter speeds, will my subjects "smear"?

 

I would love to hear from wedding / social photographers: as a

general rule, how long are your shutter speeds when you're trying to

blend flash and ambient lighting indoors?

[bruce_rubenstein]

There is no simple answer. What shutter speed you use depends on: focal length of lens, how fast the subject is moving (if at all), how large a print you want to make.

 

If you're digital, try a series of shots of the same subject and vary the shutter speed. Try it with different lenses. Try it with the ambient at different relative levels (the higher the ambient the more motion blur will show). Digital is neat because the EXIF data will record the exposure values (so you don't have to take notes), and it's faster to check the results. For the record, I usually use 1/30 sec.

[maiken]

Bruce, thanks for the reply. I will certainly play around with different settings and see what effect they have.

 

I guess my question could also be posed as: should I apply the same rules of thumb in setting shutter speed as I would under natural light, or can I go slower and rely on the flash to help stop the action?

 

Under natural light, I would usually try to shoot faster than 1/30th. Is that also the case for you, Bruce, but you find you can go a little slower when using a flash to supplement the light? Or do you shoot at 1/30th under natural light, too?

[rtrace]

Mark,

 

As it was mentioned there is no easy answer for this. It depends on many things. Just remember that THE most important thing to think about is blending the flash exposure with the ambient exposure as much as possible. So this means metering for the ambient light and seeing what shutter speed that gives you and then working from there to see what compromises you can make - because you will have to make some.

 

This can be increasing the ISO (not what you want to do if you'll be making a large print - again it depends on each shot), increasing the shutter if you DON'T want trailing lights (see my example where I DID want trailing lights and dragging the shutter) and you have a moving subject, decreasing the shutter to get this effect if you DO want it, or playing with f-stops. Use a fast lens from far away if you want a lot of DOF, etc. There is no rule really. Generally speaking, unless you're using very fast lenses (and even the it depends on how dark the venue is), you will not get a perfect flash to ambient light blend since the shutter speeds will be slow. I say generally, because even with fast lenses you may not get it. And if you do you will have to sacrifice (or not) DOF, depending on what effect you want.

 

So think of the effect you want first and then see what you are willing to compromise.

 

Here is an example where I wanted to drag the shutter.<div></div>

[joe_ethridge]

Something to keep in mind when using slower shutter speeds (like 1/30th,1/15th, 1/8th, etc.) and flash is that the outcome may be hard to predict. If you are using digital, then you can check the results as you shoot. If you are using film, you may also want to shoot some that you know will work. Perhaps the best setting is when using rear curtain (also called second curtain) flash sync. I've found that at 1/15th and rear curtain flash, some really cool shots have resulted. All this depends on subject movement,amount of ambient and flash light, etc. Anything slower than 1/15th may demand a tripod. As I said, some cool shots can be had this way, as with the flash going off at the end of the exposure, it gives a sense of movement, with the blur leading up to the sharper image within the photo. I must warn you though, that I've had some shots that would have been great, if only the subjects (the bride's) head hadn't been rendered invisible. Hence the unpredictability.

Have fun experimenting. Joe

[picturesque]

"...is it necessary for me to keep the shutter this short?" No, but how long or short depends on the effect you want. If you're using the ambient light as the main source of illumination and the flash for fill only, your subject will definitely "smear". To freeze the subject, underexpose the ambient by at least a stop. Any part of the subject(s) that gets a good dose of flash is going to be frozen. Any part that doesn't will be blurred. Subjects in the foreground exposed by the flash will be frozen. Subjects in the background less exposed by the flash will be blurred.

 

Knowing what shutter speed other photographers use is only half the information you need. It's the relationship between the ambient EV and EV you've set on your camera that will make the difference. I also think the "rule of thumb" is a little different for digital than film as well, since film photographers tend to overexpose slightly to moderately to get good shadow detail, meaning they can drag the shutter more without getting as much blur as one would using digital, where you are trying not to overexpose with flash. For ISO 400, I tend to use f5.6 at 1/30th or equivalent EV. In the same situation, using medium format, I might use f8 at 1/15th, an equivalent EV. But I might change things depending on the ambient light level and even the size of the room (if I get more reflectance from light colored walls).

[cjogo]

Most of any indoor reception >> we shoot ASA 400 film @ 1/15 f4 with a Quantum strobe ~~bouncing into a white card 45* and set at auto 5.6+ or f8 --all the evening out.

[steve_levine]

I go as low as 1/15th sometimes, but only when I know my flash is the only flash that will fire. A second flash can freeze a 2nd set of features on someone's face! In other words your flash fires and freezes an image, if a 2nd flash fires while your shutter is still open, and you now have the "2 faces of Eve".

[paul_kurian]

If I am not mistaken, we have to use a tripod when we use shutter speeds like 1/10 sec, otherwise subject may blur due to camera movement.Please give your opinions.

[rtrace]

And sometimes I don't mind a little blur if I can get some effect like in this shot. What do

you think?<div></div>

[medina photography cherry]

At receptions I almost always use a slow shutter speed , sometimes as slow as 1/15th or even 1/8th with 2 flashes. I just did a wedding a couple of weeks ago where it rained all day, so reception was indoors. The room (albeit nicely decorated) was very dark. I used 2 strobes off camera, triggered by a ST-E2 transmitter and used a very slow shutter speed. I did get some blurring in background subjects, but the warm tones were well worth it. I think the images are alive that way. (this is not a general comment, but specific to this wedding)<div></div>

[nstock]

If I want the back ground to show, I will drag it down to 1/15. If I don't want a distracting back ground to show, I will run it up to 1/60th .

[fotografz]

Depending on the lighting, you may not necessarily want to "meter for the background"

especially in dark conditions at a reception. It'll often result in too slow of a shutter speed.

 

As a starting point, try setting your camera to manual mode, set the shutter speed at one

speed lower than the focal length (1/30th for a 50mm for example), and set the lens to

the aperture needed for adequate Depth of Field depending on the subject (but as open as

you can get away with depending on focal length used and distance to subject).

 

Now, with the flash set to TTL and Second Shutter, the flash duration will freeze the

subject, while the camera's shutter speed and the Lens aperture will record as much

ambient light as possible without much main subject blur if at all.

 

From that point you can began experimenting with even slower shutter speeds, and wider

apertures to see the effect. Depending on subject movement and how steady of a hand

you have, you can find different effects and degrees of blur in the background and of the

subject itself.

 

While you're at it try not only dragging the shutter, but also pan with the subject

movement. The Background will do all sorts of cool stuff, while the subject will appear

reasonably sharp.<div></div>

[timcorridan]

marc, and others, i was always curious. even though you get the "artsie" clients quite often, do they ( or the not so artsie ones) sometimes look at a pan shot, or a drag-the shutter-dance-shot, and think, oops, he missed that one bad. i'm asuming you include only the shots that realy work for ya. thanks.

[rtrace]

Marc, do you have that shot in color that you can post? I find that for the shots I take where I want blur (via panning, dragging the shutter, or both actually) the almost always look better in color. B&W looks too static for this IMO. I'd be curious to see your shot in color to compare.

 

BTW, I said to meter for the ambient/background as a *starting* point IF you want a perfect ambient/flash balance. But I did say you will need to compromise ;)

[rtrace]

Tim, I find that people tend to like these type of shots - but of course it depends on the client. But most like it. Of course you don't want to overdo it. But a couple of shots that show some motion add IMO to the otherwise static/standard shots. Candids/motion - these are the shots that I think make shoot stand out. Or ones with very shallow DOF for selective focus/isolation when done right.

[rtrace]

Also to add, just like with regular panning, make sure you have an interesting background. Otherwise blurring it/etc. won't have that great an effect.

[jmichaelc]

Agree with all that has been said. I've been trying a few new things as of late and have found something quite interesting. The posted shot here was taken with a 50mm 1.4 wide open. My 550 was set to full power, rotated 120 degrees backwards in a large open room with 15' vaulted ceilings. ISO was set to 100 and the ambient reading was 1/3 second and my camera was set to -2 EV (manual). As you can see, i was able to freeze movement, keep the iso up and keep the ambient - at 1/3 shutter. I took lots at this setting and only a few with extreme movement showed small amounts of ghosting. Went to a different room with different lighting - metered the ambient - set the flash to full power, rotated the 550 backwards (120 degrees) keep the ISO up, -2 EV and it produced the same results. I'm looking forward to utilizing this more.<div></div>

[jmichaelc]

WOW -what happens to the contrast when uploading? Lets try that again here:<div></div>

[jmichaelc]

Today must be the day of mistakes - that should be AV instead of manual:)

[maiken]

Jammey, you say:

 

<p><i>ISO was set to 100 and the ambient reading was 1/3 second and my camera was set to -2 EV (manual)</i>

 

<p>This sentence is a little confusing to me -- you shot at the 1/3s shutter speed your meter indicated, so does the -2EV refer to your flash compensation, meaning you were using flash as "fill" here?

[jmichaelc]

I'm sorry Mark......i was hurring my thoughts for i had to leave for lunch. I metered the scene, and with -2 EV, my shutter speed ended up being 1/3. EXIF at the time the shutter was pressed was:

 

1.4

ISO 100

1/3

50MM

 

Therefore for the actual ambient of the room you can add +2 stops. However, the power of the bounce leveled that out quite nicely.

[jmichaelc]

Another using the same setting.......except this one metered (at time of shutter) at 1/6.<div></div>

[picturesque]

Mark, since Jammey corrected his statement in the post above yours, it would seem that he was using -2 AV, which gave him the f1.4, 1/3 second, ISO 100 setting with the flash set to manual mode, full power, meaning the bounced flash was used as the main source of illumination. I have used the -2 AV method before, but with E-TTL flash and it works OK. I prefer to use manual mode on the camera though, and would think that the manual full power flash wouldn't work in every situation--not to mention the constant drain on your batteries for the probable hundreds of shots normally taken during the reception. Also, if you use AV with evaluative ambient metering, there is the NEVAC factor to consider (some Canon bodies do this), in which ambient exposure is automatically altered whenever the flash is turned on.

[maiken]

Nadine, I tried Googling NEVAC to learn more, but didn't turn up anything that seemed relevant. Do you have a pointer to something that can provide more detail about this phenomenon?