marcin harla Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 This is one of those rhetoric question. The life be very boring if we blindly followed every rule, such as Speed Limit fo instance ;) (Oh boy, I'm gonna be burned for that one) <br>But how often do you brake them? I'm talking composition, exposure, etc. Should newbies to photography (such as myself) even try to break the rules? <br>Let me post an example. Picture is totally "bulls eyed" but I saw beautiful light on their faces and just fired away. I like it but would love to hear others opinions.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrey_lan Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 the angle and similar skin tone makes it look as if she has an unusually large nose, distorted eye, and unflattering jawline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Centered is not a complete no no, and in this case I would protest that the car window made a good frame of them. OTOH, I don't care for the profile of his nose next to hers, that part is a little awkward. Nice light and DOF for the subject. You are obvoiusly going to do nicely....:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melisa Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Your picture is not a composition no-no. You used the window as a frame, that's a great composition tactic! The lighting is really lovely, good eye. However, my eye went immediately to the two noses and two lips...had it been just the bride or a better profile of both...you would have really knocked this one out of the park, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melisa Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I write too slow...ditto David. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavelp Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I do not think you should concentrate on breaking rules. Take the pictures, look for great shots and later you may sit down and analyze: "well, this shot really works well even though the rule of thirds is not exactly observed." If you can also find out what makes that particular shot strong, you are learning more then you would just by intentionally breaking rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffrey_lan Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 pavel makes a good point - in my opinion, one should learn the rules so that (s)he may break them with skill and impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mccarley Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 This is one of those well hit balls that just faded foul. It doesn't matter that it was almost a home run, it still doesn't make the proof book. It appears that you were the second shooter or someone else had their attention. Either way, you positioned yourself well for the shot that could have been. As far as newbies breaking the rules goes, many don't even know what the rules are. Program, point, shoot and see what we can fix in Photoshop. My advice to newbies is master the rules first and then see which ones bend as you slowly develop a style. How is this done without reckless disregard for your client's interests? Assist an established pro to learn the rules. Never "bend or break" rules (what you know works) when failure results in a very pissed off client. Curious to see how 3200 speed film does at high noon and a beach wedding? Don't wait for the kiss to try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcin harla Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 I've never said I don't know the rules. Nevertheless even though I know them, I still make mistakes - mostly because of lack of experience. The image above was intentionally shot the way it is bacause I loved the framing and especailly the light. Got too excited and missed two noses to close to each other. That's why this place is such a great place to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmarkpainter Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Marcin, It was certainly in interesting idea that was worth shooting. Thing is that in wedding & promo photography there is one really important rule. Be FLATTERING whenever possible. Some people just don't really look good from any angle so you are off the hook then :) jmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mccarley Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 A few of our most pleasing shots were "mistakes" or reactions before an unexpected moment was gone. Thoughts about the "rules".... Never miss a fleeting shot worrying about them. Never ruin a shot because you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 This one is "distrubing" on several levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erik_hornung Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 This topic takes me back to art school. It reminds me how much we were taught the rules, the theory of composition and grids and all that stuff when it comes to design. It was always frustrating for me, even though I could pull off good marks following these rules but when I got tired of that I would pull of a design breaking every design rule known to man and still have a very aesthetically pleasing piece of work. It always astounded me how the instructors would frown upon this type of approach, but critiques from classmates were always positive. Where are there rules, or, why do we follow the rules when we know that these "rules" don't have to be followed to produce a pleasing product. I think students learning any kind of artform would learn an incredible amount and develop more personal and intimate style if they weren't confined within these boundaries of rules the textbooks tell us. Just once i'd have like and instructor to say, "Alright students, your project is to design a poster on lampshades. Your goal is to break every rule possible and still have something effective and pleasing the look at. The winner gets a cookie!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mccarley Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Steve - Hopefully my post wasn't disturbing you. If it was, this may help... Never ruin a shot because you didn't [worry about the "rules"]. Are there really hard and fast rules of photography or simply proven processes, techniques and compositional structures that are inherently appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mccarley Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I am not suggesting that the only way to shoot is per the "rule book". That would eliminate completely and artistic difference between us. You simply need to know which rules you are breaking so that you can be objective in your approach. The "learned rules" separate those that that simply point, shoot and hope from those that manipulate the composition and lighting (scene) to create the image they intended to capture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_ Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 "Curious to see how 3200 speed film does at high noon and a beach wedding?" No problem if you can find a camera that will 'fill-flash' with the speed of ISO 3200....but why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael mccarley Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 "That would eliminate completely and artistic difference between us." I never could proof read. Could have sworn it said "any differences".... I don't know why anybody would want to shoot 3200 at the beach (at noon) either but what the heck, that's why they make neutral density filters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anner Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Marcin, I'm a big fan of "breaking all the rules". Obviously you know what the rules are if you know you're breaking them. Some rules are really just preferences that were liked by enough people that someone decided to call them rules and others are technical guidelines. When it comes to composition and framing.. I think we're speaking of preferences that may be agreed upon by many different people. Wouldn't it be boring if we always followed everyone else's rules? I know that awesome car of yours wouldn't be so fun if you couldn't ever break the speed limit ;-). I like the image, I agree it's a little akward, but I would probably include it and let the bride & groom decide if they liked it or not. If they like it, that's all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Breaking rules is a fine thing, but only if you have learned them first. Sometimes the simplest of photos takes a lot of effort. Simplicity in approach and design doesn't mean "easy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_clark___minnetonka_mi Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I like your photograph. You explored the boundaries and you got something pretty good. You've got a good creative eye; it must be because your heart, mind & soul are getting connected! Keep working. May I suggest next time this opportuinity should present itself, getting some of the eyes of the other person into your image, at least more than the nose. Just a thought to help. I like how you framed the photograph and your use of lighting. Good job! Thank You for submitting your photograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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