Learning To Use Flash - Bracket vs. Hotshoe? O.o

[vlad khavin]

I'm planning to make a trip to the store this weekend and pick up a 580EX.

First order of business; Nadine's flash assignment. I've already read it 3

times over, but figure I may as well wait for a real flash to try and do it.

Better late than never. But here's the question. I know it's pretty much a

given that I will need a bracket to get the flash off the camera for any serious

shooting. But do I need it right away, since I am just practicing the

techniques? Since I'm not looking for pro grade final product here, but more to

go through and learn the concepts, will the lack of bracket affect what I get

out of the assignment and my own experimentation thereafter?

 

Thanks in advance,

Vlad

[timcorridan]

a flash bracket is like a camera bag. most have a couple of dead ones in the closet. try not to buy one till you've researched all of them, try one or two out if you can, find out what works with the gear you have....if your buying your first flash, you probably will have enough to learn for quite awhile, without spending another wad. might as well start off right from the begining with a bunch of rechargable batterries.

[vlad khavin]

Thanks, Tim! I guess that answers it. To be honest, the more I thought about my question (which seemed like a terribly good one, right up until 5 minutes after I posted it), the more I think it's a pretty silly one. The small differeince in the placement of the flash should not make a difference as far as settings go.

 

Sorry. Had a stupid moment, there.

[al_kaplan1]

I don't shoot with a huge DSLR and zoom lens so I mostly hold the camera in my right hand and the flash in my left. My "workhorse" flash is the Vivitar 283.

[Gary Naka]

Vlad

 

A bracket is not necessary now. But you will want one in a bit, to get off camera flash position. Al does it the way I used to shoot. A handle mount flash on a camera bracket, but only to carry. I used to hold the flash over my head at arms length.

 

The main thing is do you feel comfortable with the flash on the hot shoe. If not, an inexpensive bracket would be a good idea, until you figure what you want. A Stroboframe Quick Flip or similar off eBay would be the most economical route. Just watch the bidding, I've seen bidding for stuff go higher than what Adorama and B&H sells for. And watch that it has the flash shoe mount, some don't.

 

Gary

[al_kaplan1]

Believe me, if I went through the closets and boxes around here I could open the Bracket Store, or maybe the Bracket Museum would be a more apt description considering the age of some of them...LOL, but after all of that I've concluded that just holding the flash in my left hand is easier. I suspect that if all the photographer over age 50 on this forum were to put their unused brackets in a single pile we'd have a decent size mountain to remind us of all the money we waste chasing the dream...

[khaisy]

Al That could work for you, I tried holding the flash in one hand an dthe camera in the other, how are you shot with low shutter holding the camera in one hand.. I like using the bracket thought it is added weight, no trouble with shadow or Red eye. I find it that what easy for some of us it is hard for others and vice versa, I agree to try anything till you find your comfort zone...

[jimstrutz]

If you buy the bracket you will also need a way to trigger it off camera. The Canon Off Camera Shoe Cord 2 (OCSC2) is the usual low cost way ($60-70). The wireless ST-E2 is better in several ways, but will set you back a lot more. Personally, I would forget the bracket for now, but get the cord so you can try doing what Al does. Of course, he's doing it with smaller cameras and non-zoom lenses. Still, the cord is handy at times.

[al_kaplan1]

Khalil, I regularly shoot with a 35mm lens one handed at 1/15, even 1/8 and 1/4 sometimes. Consider your face as a second support for the camera, lightly pressing the camera against it. With a rangefinder camera there's no mirror shake, and you can see the subject through the finder during the exposure and keep it aligned with the frame lines. Relax, don't hold the camera in a death grip. Practice arching your right index finger and moving just the tip in a straight up and down motion with no other muscle in your hand moving, just the index finger. You don't need the camera to practice this. Practice your breathing, nice slow even breaths. They say that shooting on the exhale is best, but it's most important to just calm yourself down. Make two or three exposures to be safe.

 

When using a flash in low light it's only the ambient (available) light that's being affected by the low shutter speed. The flash will give you a crisp image perhaps surrounded by a slightly blurred image, but it likely won't be noticeable, or at least not bothersome. Practice is the key. Practice the breathing, the finger movement, holding the camera pressed against your eye socket and cheek bones.

 

With shorter lenses it's even easier. Click on my name and go to my Photonet "self portrait" portfolios, a fun project that I'm still doing. Those shots are all done holding the camera out at arms length in one hand pointing back at myself with the 15mm f/4.5 Heliar lens. The ones shot inside are mostly 1/4 to 1/15 second, with a few as long as 1 second, but those really slow ones usually are shot with my camera hand pressed against a wall, a tree trunk, a chair back, or something. Some are shot right handed, others left handed.

 

The strangest thing is that I've shot a few while at commercial assignments and at weddings and they've appeared in web sites and used in a few albums...LOL

[ninhtam]

I do weddings. I never leave home without the camera flip bracket http://www.tiffen.com/userimages/Strobo_RL_CameraFlip.pdf

If you don't want to use bracket and have the flash bounce to the cellings or get Gary fong's lightsphere (for short distance). Hope this help.

 

Ninhtam

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

I find it is helpful not to be in a hurry to bring your finger off the shutter button. I press and hold for a few fractions of a second. A follow through of sorts.

[robbie_caswell]

I think they are worth the money. I have a mint Pro T bracket I will sell you for $30. Since I bought the camera flip version (Pro RL by stroboframe) I haven't used it.

 

Long term definately get a camera flip version, not the flash flip/flop ProT version. One to explore if you go that route is the camera flip version by Custom. Only held it briefly but the difference is little except the left hand grip seems better placed on the Custom. After a long day the Pro RL placement seems to hurt my wrist. Have no regrets with my Pro RL.

[vlad khavin]

Thank you all for the responses!

 

Robbie, why camera flip instead of the flash flip? I'm curious... I haven't tried either, but I've seen both varieties, and have kind of been wondering which is better and for what reason. I suspect that it's largely a matter of personal preference, but, preferences develop for a reason, so I'm always curious what experience causes folks to choose one flavor over another.

[robbie_caswell]

For me... The flash flip it unwieldy and top heavy, and seems to strain the connections. The camera flip rotates the camera on the bracket itself and is much easier to handle. When the Pro T isn't being used the swinging arm with the flash is flopping around pulling on the connections and not to mention banging the crap out of a $300 flash. Both are somewhat unwieldy and floppy and the Stroboframe PRO RL is a bit heavier but is much preferred to the Pro T.

[jimstrutz]

And I prefer the flash flip types. I have both, but generally use the Pro-T. The camera flip versions are easier to use on a tripod/monopod though, and that's why I keep mine. So much of this is just personal preference.

[picturesque]

Vlad--brackets are personal things--if you shoot long enough, you will probably acquire many different ones in the quest for the perfect one. Here are a few things to consider though. There are basically two types of brackets--ones that flip the flash and ones that flip the camera.

 

There is one big advantage to ones that flip the flash. When shooting verticals, the flash head, when in direct ahead position, matches the orientation of the vertical frame, giving good coverage. The disadvantages are as follows. Flipping the flash puts more stress on the flash/cord hotshoe connections, especially when the flash is sideways. Canon's 580EX's plastic shoe can snap, either completely off or the edges of the shoe part can crumble. Using an alternate 1/4 20 screw can help with that, and the replacement part of the shoe is cheap. When bouncing flash, you have to take an extra second to re-orient the flash head when going from horizontal to vertical orientation. When on a tripod or monopod, you have to flop the whole bracket/camera and flip the flash, which can be very awkward.

 

The big advantage to ones that flip the camera is that you can put on any kind of modifier or tilt and swivel the flash head and not have to change it when going from horizontal to vertical and when on a tripod, you don't have to flop the camera/bracket. The big disadvantage is as follows. When in camera vertical orientation, the flash is in horizontal head position in the direct ahead position, which may cause fall off if you are closer to your subject.

 

There are brackets of both kinds that put the flash forward of the camera, which to me causes an imbalance. Then there is the issue of which way you turn the camera to vertical. If you use a battery grip with the vertical shutter release, you want a flip bracket that allows you to flip the flash to the right and turn the camera to the left. Or you want a bracket that flips the camera to the left.

 

Other issues are as follows. Whether the bracket has a nice, soft grip to hold. Whether it has a separate handle. Whether it is big but customizable, or small and compact but has less places or options to hang other thing on it, like battery packs, focusing lights, slave transmitters, etc. Whether it has a 1/4 20 tripod hole or place to attach a quick release. Whether it has camera and flash anti-twist options. Whether the off-camera cord has a place to hang or twist around and can accommodate the flipping. And last but not least, whether the actual camera, complete with accessories, actually fits well and works well on the bracket.

 

I always tell people to take everything you intend to put on the bracket down to a well stocked store and try everything out in person, or make a short list and order from a place you can return. To practice with flash, you don't need a bracket, but in order to make the best use of your money when you do get one, if you get one, its always best to try them out first.

[picturesque]

Oh yes--another issue is whether the bracket allows the whole rig to sit upright or not.

[Gary Naka]

I would like to make a follow on comment to Nadine.

 

I have a Stroboframe Quick Flip 120 (flips the flash), and was trying it out on my D70 with a Quantum...bad idea. The Quantum wieghts enough that it was really front heavy in the flipped position, and a bit clumbersome. I don't think this will be as much of an issue with lighter flashes. But I would not have found out about this unless I actually put everything together and tried it out. A bracket with nothing on is easy to play with, but tells you very little.

[patrick_lockwood]

If you use a bracket, you will need a Canon TTL cord

 

I don't use a bracket, because I'm usually bouncing off the ceiling. If I can't, I will have my assistant hold a slaved 580ex flash on a pole, with the master on my hotshoe.

 

Patrick

[fotografz]

I can verify what Nadine said about flip brackets ... they're hell on flashes. I've had two

shoe mounts destroyed ... and finally had to epoxy a metal quick release shoe to the flash.

 

I don't use a bracket any longer and don't miss them at all. However, after doing a year's

worth of weddings the shoe mount on one of my Canon cameras is getting loose from all

the stress.

 

To much modern camera gear is disposable junk IMO. A plastic shoe on a $500. flash? A

shoe mount separating from the camera and no way to tighten it back down? Hmmm ...

[al_kaplan1]

It's really rediculous when an aftermarket metal shoe for a Vivitar 283 costs nearly double what a used 283 sells for.

[charity borg]

I love my Stroboframe Press T and I highly recommend it simple because you can still hold onto the camera while shooting. The 580EX is one sweet flash too!

[rich_taylor____mequon__wi]

I've got Strobo flip thingy and a Pro-T and a few others collecting dust. I don't remember the last time I used a bracket and I haven't missed it. A personal thing. It's just more weight and the difference between what it accomplishes as opposed to the on-camera SB-800 is negligible if not non-existent. I know I'll get some grief about that statement.

 

I prefer to use an SB (in TTL) on camera (camera in aperture priority), usually dialed down. It serves as a master unit. I hold a remote SB-800 (also in TTL) to the side as my key light. I usually hold it, but there are other options. I can clamp it almost anywhere (Bogen makes a great spring clamp with a hot-shoe mount on a ball-joint so it can be swiveled into any position), or have it on a light stand. When hand-held, the second unit provides a flattering lighting ratio (which I can adjust as needed) on people, or serves as an additional light source (when mounted) in larger situations, like dance floors. I find it much more flexible and easier to work with either the one on-camera unit or two SB's which are communicating wirelessly. Repeat: w-i-r-e-l-e-s-s-l-y. Love that wireless!

 

I know you shoot with Canon, but imagine the same options are available.