Being the "other" wedding photographer...

[mary_s]

I'm a professional wedding photographer who photographs 20+ weddings a year. My

future sister in law is having her wedding this summer, and the photographer she

is considering hiring has an exclusive photographer clause in her contract. It

is very important to me that I be allowed to photograph this family event. I

don't want to be in the other photographers way, but I won't be able to relax

and have fun without my camera in my hands. The photographer has requested I

contact her and I'm afraid she is going to be firm on her rules regarding other

photographers.

 

It is strange for me to be on "the other side" for once. As a wedding

photographer I have no rules in my contract about other photographs. I do ask

that people not take pictures during formals because it causes my strobes to

fire, but aside from that I'm very open to letting other people take pictures.

 

What is the most diplomatic way to handle this and still get my way? :)

[jessica_smith9]

What I've done in the past is be respectful and don't take shots during the ceremony, or of any poses (done by the photographer). I've communicated with the photographer and stated my purpose, and that I had no interest in taking money from their print sales. I would stick to candids and evening shots, and would ask the photographer what would be okay with them (to a reasonable extent). It's easier for me to put the photographer at ease since I'm more into fashion and other portraits. It's also helped to open some doors.

[roxyandkaidotcom]

I think you shouldn't worry so much about "getting your way." It's your future sister in law's

day, not yours. If she wants you to be able to take pictures, it's up to her to talk to find a

photographer that's okay with that. If she decides on one that doesn't allow others to shoot,

you need to respect her decision and respect the other photographer by not shooting.

[stephen dohring]

I recently started working with a top pro in the area and she and other collegues are fed up, people are comming in with DSLR's and shooting. Granted they are not as good as the pro's but sometimes "good enough" to where they are loosing print money. Sounds like you would be a real threat to print money. Some photog. are now threatning to walk away. If she wanted you there she should have hired you but if she is going with this other photographer then your shots are not needed. I am sure you would get some great stuff but it is not about your ego or impressing them , we are all a little competative and I would leave the camera at home or keep it in the car if things run late. One wedding was a real scene a lady with a Cannon is shooting with a diffuser and her and the pro got into it, the bride was involved and it was in the contract no other cameras. Not a fun conversation during the wedding. You never know though the pro may be charging enough upfront so you shold look at the contract. Better to know where you stand than cause a small scuffle at the event. You could also offer to second shoot and give the pro the shots, doing PJ and stuff if he is doing formals, that would be a real benefit to your relatives.

[catchlight]

Did you specifically want to photograph the ceremony and formals? If not, just wait until those are over, and shoot whatever the "exclusive" photographer doesn't.

 

Or, just respect the bride's choice, and go as a guest and have a good time. Could be a liberating experience to leave your camera gear at home (or in the trunk of your car--just in case).

[shawn_mertz]

"The photographer has requested I contact her and I'm afraid she is going to be firm on

her rules regarding other photographers."

 

Don't be afraid contact her as she has requested. Show your a professional by being

respectful of the photographers wishes when you speak with her. Nothing said in this

forum matters, it is between the photographer, your future sister in law, whoever she is

marrying, and not only last but least too, yourself. You need to be willing to take a day

off, and let the other pro do their job, if that is what is best for the couple.

 

Just go and have fun. With or without your camera.

[mary_s]

Print sales are not an issue. A full res DVD is included in the photographers package. The bride wants me to be able to take photos, but she does not want me saddled with the responsiblity of photographing the wedding. If push comes to shove there is another photographer that can do the job. I just don't want it to come to that, but I just can't imagine being with my family and not taking pictures. My camera goes every where with us. I love taking pictures. It's why I picked this profession.

[annealmasy]

Mary, this isn't about you. The bride hired someone else to photograph her wedding, and

she signed a contract with them.

 

I'm sure all the guests will have cameras, so if you maintain a typical guest-like attitude

and snap a quick photo here and there, that shouldn't be a problem. But if you're unable

to "relax and have fun without a camera" in your hands, well... that's really YOUR issue to

deal with, not the photographer's, and not the bride's.

 

Don't make an issue out of something that doesn't need to be an issue!

[frank_skomial]

"respect the other photographer by not shooting" - you can certainly respect the other photographer or your sister in-law wishes, but certainly wedding guests would not! and will shoot any time and any place they find it possible.

 

It does not matter if they have a pocket cameras, or full size or medium size cameras, they will just do it. It will be unfair to you being barred from shooting, while averybody else with cameras will shoot. Tell this to your sister, and shoot the wedding as you please, and only stop shooting for moments when the official photographer make special formal arrangeemnts and is obvious to you that he is in charge and deserves the first shot, but you can stil use a longer lens to shoot, or shoot after he is done with his shooting and his flashes are recharging. The wedding guests will shot without hesitation.

 

Even thogh a wedding is a private party, but in many cases it happens in a public place like a church, and on-lookers and gests will definitely shoot their photos. Nobody will police that, or is it realy possible?

[bruce_rubenstein]

The term "exclusive photographer" applies to hired/paid photographers. A guest with a camera, is just a guest with a camera. They may be a royal PIA, but they don't violate an exclusive photographer clause. I've been on both sides of this also. When I'm a "guest with a camera" I don't take the photographers shots (of things like formals), stay out of their way and stay out of their frame. Having a chat with the photographer ahead of time is a good idea just to make things clear about what she is doing and you're not doing. If she has problems with you taking pictures then she's just an insecure jerk.

[kiva]

Can you call the photographer and have the bride to be in on the call at the same time?

 

Just wondering..... how would you react to the prospects of another experienced pro showing up at one of your weddings?

 

Heck, take a small uncle bob camera along and practice getting images with a normal consumer camera.

 

or

 

Can you get ahold of a Polaroid camera and take some creative fun images and even get them resized and done into art images.

 

You don't have to walk in with your pro equipment but you can join all the other regular consumer group and hone your skills and give the future sister in law a different look but done with a trained eye.

 

I like the Polaroid idea myself, have fun, and don't bring "tension" in with you.

 

If you ask the other photog if a consumer camera or a Polaroid is ok she'll probably say yes.

[mary_s]

A three way call is a GREAT idea. I'm going to suggest that. (The photographer hasn't returned my call yet.) As far as equipment goes I was planning on bringing my 5d with a 50mm 1.2. Nothing too threatening or giant.

[sandra_schaffer]

Bring a nice Point and shoot that looks like a point and shoot if you really want to be non threatening.

 

Better yet, if you cannot relax and enjoy the day without your camera, then you need to work on social skills (perhaps) or maybe stay home.

 

The best choice you could make is to leave your camera stuff home. This is not your job, not your venue and not yours to do. You are a guest. Go ahead and give yourself permission to be one.

[justscattin]

Bring a point and shoot. Just think of how you feel when this happens to you as a professional.

Locally, there is a college that offers "Classes" of photography...let's just say I sat in on a few and there is no way my daughter is taking them.

Anyway, it seems that one of these students are always at my weddings and trying to get shots for their classes...let's forget that I caught a few of them offering the resulting images for sale to family members of the bride and groom.

Not all, but enough to tick me off.

I have a clause that states I can stop the shoot and leave with no refunds given....I get my payments up front.

I am in no way saying that you are that type of person, just my personal experiance with poachers. Can I suggest taking a point and shoot and doing things with the people the photographer is not working with? What about focusing on certain members of the family...like the parents of the bride and groom...or children. Kind of give yourself an assignment and see how creative you can get with a point and shoot.

Some of my personal favorite shots that I have taken have been with a cheaping Advantex point and shoot.

Total respect for this photographer could lead to referrals from her to you in the future!

Michelle

[michelle_gunton]

"The bride wants me to be able to take photos"

Well there is your answer what the bride wants she should get, but its her responsibility to handle not yours.

[susan_davis2]

I think you really need to respect both the main photographer and the bride's wishes. Talk with the photographer in person or on the phone, not email (too impersonal). If the photographer says no, you need to respect that or have the bride talk to him. But do not make a bit fuss unless the bride really wants you to shoot. If so, then that's something you need to work out, but if it's only you that is really wanting to take photos then you need to control yourself. Don't get in the way at all and respect the other photographer

[ellery_chua___singapore]

Mary

 

Let's go over what is happening here. It's your future sister in law's day. She does not seem to have made a request that you shoot as well. Her intended choice as the exclusive photographer clause. You have a need to have a camera and shoot even in family social situations. You want your way. You do not have this clause in your contracts.

 

On a professional level, you need to respect the offical photographer. I am sure you know the other reasons (not the print sale issue) why some photog are very picky about this clause; if not get up to speed on this.

 

While I do not have this clause in my contracts, there have been wedding where the relatives formed a 6 to 8 person wide by 2 rowss deep block snapping away with the digicams. It really screws up the formals since they never stop clicking away and it is difficult to hold the attention of the couple for the shots needed. Candids are also messed up become who would be candid with that brigade of paparizzi around ? It make work harder. Some people do not like to deal this sort of handicap, I can work with it so not an issue.

 

You need to examin carfully if the brides wants you to shoot - ask if the answer is no I think you need to respect this. It is not your day and should you get carried away it could result in compromising her pictures of the day. Like it been said - its not about you its not your day it is not about what you want.

 

Be a guest, relax, enjoy that day. You could if deadily bored shoot mentally, the exercise is worth the effort as it causes you to think about what you do automatically.

 

Been through this myself. The pressure on the offical is always there when another wedding shooter shoots. Your automatic reflexes would put you in a collision course for best angles. The bride will have a problem know who to favour with eye contact.

[mary_s]

The bride wants me to shoot! We are trying to figure out a way we can make this non-threatening for the hired photographer. Guests shoot at weddings all the time. Seems silly to not want a guest to shoot just because it is what they get paid to do.

[timberwulf]

This is all speculation and is moot until you talk to the pro. Be friendly and professional and see what the pro has in mind. My little brother is getting married later this year and has hired a professional to shoot it. My father and I are both part-time wedding photographers, and in fact there will be at least 3 additional full time pro photogs at the wedding who are friends of the family. Despite the hired professional having a single shooter agreement, my father has already reached an agreement with her that he will have a camera with him, and likely one of his friends also will be messing around shooting at the event (I'm leaving my gear at home, there's enough crap going on that I have to deal with as Best Man without juggling cameras too). The pro is fine with that arrangement and everyone is happy.

 

That said, and assuming the pro doesn't mind you shooting too, don't bring a full bag of glass, multiple strobes, diffuser, bracket, etc. to the wedding. Just bring a body and a couple of lenses and use on camera flash or an attached external flash (if you don't have an attached flash on camera). Shoot for fun/learning with available light, or use the opportunity to experiment with some simpler lighting techniques that you'd not normally use. Look at it as a challenge to document a wedding with different techniques and from angles and standpoints that you'd not normally utilize on a paid gig. Also (though I know this sounds patronizing - it's not meant to be!) make sure that you're not offering prints to folks at the wedding. Let the pro do their stuff with sales etc. Naturally, of course, you'll be offering a set to the bride. :)

 

I agree with the previous poster that if you try to go full-bore, you may end up right on top of the pro on a regular basis, and I know as a caring pro that you won't want to do that. By showing up with a very abbreviated kit, and by shooting from very different angles using alternate techniques, you'll be acting more like (and will blend in better with) the herd of Uncle Joe's and Aunt Sally's that are there with their point and shoots. The key is not to upstage the pro (thereby being potentially distracting/stress inducing) by hauling around your full wedding kit and acting like you've been hired to do the gig. :)

 

Relax, have fun, and (pro willing) take the opportunity to enhance your skills and gain a new eye on the proceedings by doing the opposite of what you'd do on a paying gig.

[justscattin]

It's not threatening, it's professional behavior to respect the paid photographer.

Michelle

[picturesque]

Well I don't see a problem here. Listen to the hired photographer's concerns, tell her how, when and where you want to shoot, compromise if you have to, and then do as you promised. I do agree with others above re "getting your way"--your future sister-in-law's interests should be your main concern. If the hired photographer puts her foot down, I would concede.

[kiva]

<<<The bride wants me to shoot! We are trying to figure out a way we can make this

non-threatening for the hired photographer. Guests shoot at weddings all the

time. Seems silly to not want a guest to shoot just because it is what they get

paid to do.>>>

 

~Ok, it's now 2008 and you've got this fabulous wedding photography job that promises to bring in a ton of money in prints and albums.

 

~You find out that the bride is allowing her future sister in law, who is a professional with a great dslr and an excellent low light lens, to show up and take photos of the wedding.

 

~Are you threatened at all?

 

~Are you at all concerned that you will lose money?

 

~Are you at all concerned that your contract specifically states no other photographers are allowed to shoot with a competitive camera and skills?

 

Getting out of your own skin is important.

 

~Get on the phone and talk it over with the bride and other photographer and see if you can work it out. Then decide on the next step ... cross the bridge when you get there type of thing.

 

~I might have missed some posts but did you say why the sister-in-law to be didn't hire you to shoot the wedding?

 

~As I try to get out my skin here and put myself into the shoes of the bride I'm wondering if she just trying to please a future inlaw so they don't become an outlaw. Are you sure the brides not feeling pressured by your disappointment at not being able to shoot the wedding? Some one else mentioned it and it can be very subtle. Stand back and really assess your zeal ... why didn't you get the job of shooting the wedding in the first place. It's a rude question to ask but it seems necessary to ask at this point.

 

X FACTOR: the x-factor in all this is that you could end up bringing your gear and leaving it in the car and you see 6 other guests pulling out fabulous camera gear and nothing is said so you ..... ?????

[justscattin]

How about offering them a private bridal session or engagement session? I'm just thinking that this could come back to bite you in the butt a few months down the road, a few years down the road...

Michelle

[idobelieve]

Just reading your post and the replies following it make me think of the amount of frustration I feel when I'm bumping elbows with Aunt Kathy, Uncle Joe and the brides cousin Irma while they fight me for the best spot to photograph the ring exchange with their Canon Rebels with on camera flash. I don't have a clause against other photographers in my contract, but I can understand why some people do. While I don't mind having friends and family take photos with there own gear I don't like to spend my workday competing for angles and eye contact. If I am not careful it could cause me to miss important shots, increase shooting time during formals ("okay everyone, look THIS way now") and increase my post time (erasing Uncle Joe's elbow out of the corner of my frame when he jumped in front of me to get that first kiss). I take the attitude that the couple has chosen to pay for my photos so I should get priority at all times-and I will step right in front of Uncle Bob (with a quietly whispered excuse me)if he is in the way of the angle I need during the ceremony. When I attend wedddings I take one camera, a zoom lens, and I try to be especially respectful of the hired photographer rather than making their day more difficult.

[neilambrose]

<p>Actually, I'm going to disagree with almost everyone here :-)</p>

 

<p>I never liked 'exclusive photographer' clauses. I don't use one, and never have. In my

opinion they don't have any place in weddings (yeah - I know this is contentious, but don't

shoot me down just yet; hear me out a moment.)</p>

 

When I shoot a wedding I never expect to be 'exclusive' for the simple reason that it's

unenforcable and pretty meaningless. After all - what could I even do about it if someone

else is armed with a camera? Complain to the bride? Maybe. What could she do about it;

ask the guest to stop? Maybe. Would the guest take any notice? Maybe. That's a whole lot

of maybes... and a whole lot of hassle, and not something that I want to be worrying

about, and definitely not something I want the bride worrying about. And what am I going

to do if she (or the guest) refuses to play along? Only a fool would throw their toys out the

pram and walk out. Professionals would just get on with it.</p>

 

<p>Photography is no longer an expert pursuit. It's a very normal social interaction -

especially so at weddings. These days you can expect almost every guest to have a camera

with them, and they will use them liberally. And in my opinion that's a good thing - they're

at the wedding because they're friends/family. I can't argue with that; it's a better reason

than why I'm there. I'm just the hired help, providing a commercial service. And one of the

qualities of being a professional is being able to get the shot. If a few people with cameras

put me off then I'd be pretty lousy at my job.</p>

 

<p>I don't buy the argument of protecting print sales. This is the digital age. Everyone

wants DVDs and image re-use rights. The market for generic 6x4's is non-existent - at

least in London. The only print sales I ever plan to make are fine art enlargements; a

specialist service not competing with casual guest photography. My profit margin is built

into the job, not the prints.</p>

 

<p>So - I never worry about other people with cameras. At to be frank, I don't really

understand why people have a problem with it. It's a wedding. Of course there's going to

be people other than the photographer taking pictures. The only real grounds I can see for

a clause of that type is to prevent the b+g from making multiple bookings of professional

photographers. But that's quite a different situation from what Mary is describing in her

post.</p>