The Dumping of the "M's"

[paul_neuthaler]

If you watch our Forum FS posts & check out the Auction Site as well, you will

notice lots of increased M sales activity, which I can only account for by

thinking a large number of the brethren are gearing up -- rather "gearing

down" -- in anticipation of shelling bucks out for the M8. Yet I will stay

here, quietly in the corner, clutching my M4-P, 50mm tabbed Summicron, 28mm

1:3.5 CV and, yes, my 135mm Black Canon 1:3.5. You'll have to tear them from

my old, ragged hands!

[stuart_richardson]

It's only natural. The M8 is the first digital M camera other than the Epson, which many

liked, but more were dubious about (high price to megapixel ratio, high crop factor, poor

reliability). There are many people who love shooting with rangefinders but are not

wedded to shooting film. You will also see a lot of people selling their second M body to

build a hybrid kit. I would bet that most people selling an M camera for the M8 are not

selling their only M camera. I know that if the M8 turns out to perform very well, I will

probably purchase one -- I will shoot two camers, one for black and white film, and the

other with digital. Digital is not the enemy, it is just another way to take pictures. I was an

exclusive film shooter for a long time until I got the DMR. It takes fabulous pictures and is

a great tool. I am hoping that the M8 can replicate that experience, only in a smaller

camera with better high ISO performance. The indications are that it will. <P>But anyway, I

will happily continue to shoot film, particularly in the larger formats. If your old ragged

hands prefer the M4P (as we all know they do), then you should stick with film. No one is

forcing you to go digital -- no one is "tearing" your camera from your hand. They are just

giving you another option.

[elmarfudd]

Nikon introduced the D200, which accepts MF AI lenses, and those used MF AI lenses prices went up and became less available. Pentax and Samsung introduced cheap DSLRs that have full auto capabilities with the old PK manual focus lenses; and those lenses became more expensive and harder to come by. I think the same will definetly happen to Leica gear, now that an acceptable digital solution in M mount is available. I think the "dumping" of M cameras will increase, but will eventually level out. As more photographers switch to the M system due to the new M8 there will be more people interested in using M cameras, digital or otherwise. As for me, I can't sleep till my MP gets here monday.

[al_kaplan1]

Good for you Paul! Now would be a great time to be buying up those worthless old meterless M film bodies.

[mark_amos]

Paul, while gripping that M, are you also chanting through clinched teeth: latigid, latigid, latigid, latigid,latigid, latigid, latigid, latigid, latigid, latigid, latigid, latigid, latigid, latigid.

[aaron_johnston]

I had two M7s (one was a gift from a family member) and the introduction of the M8 actually prompted me to sell one in favor of buying an MP as opposed to buying an M8 to achieve diversity. I think the MP will remain in production (however limited in comparison to the M7 and M8) but for some reason the idea of increased technology actually made me fear that my days of having access to a modern mechanical rangefinder were dwindling. This is irrational, but I thought it was an interesting reaction nonetheless. End of self-analysis.

[archie_alcantara1]

I don't think so Paul....wishful thinking as I have not really seen drastic liquidation price....just my opinion.

[george_b1]

My hands have passed "the old, ragged" stage; however my grandson (age 24) who is working on an MS degree in electro optics, wants my M4 and assorted lenses. He's gonna' get them. He's used the M4 while visiting us, and he's hooked on film as well as digital. In his young mind, there is a place for both.

 

George (The Old Fud)

[larry_kincaid1]

There's 6+ billion people in the world and still growing up to 10 billion, with the 1.5 billion Chinese and 1 billion Indians getting richer by the day. One people get used to a digital M8 rangefinder and the now really expensive Leica lenses, they'll look around and start asking how they can take M8 like photos with black and white film. The shortage of M's and terminated production will make them scarce and drive up the prices once again. I'll try a M8 if the photos look good, but I cannot image not using my M6 as well.

[Brad_]

<I>... they'll look around and start asking how they can take M8 like photos with black and

white film. </i><P>

 

Why will they do that? Makes no sense...

[tom_levidiotis]

I'm with you Paul. It's folly and I promise many of those switching will live to regret the choice and buy back back in at a premium.

 

There ain't nothing like an M.

[jtk]

An early answer to the unasked $1500 question will be "Panasonic."

[william_jorion]

The convenience of a digital rangefinder that takes M lenses is really hard to describe. I take people pictures, and being able to have an uninterrupted view of the subject while searching for fleeting expressions makes my R-D1 a hands-down winner over a digital SLR. I think those who plunk down their hard-earned dollars for the M8 will be very, very pleased with the utility of their purchase. It's expensive, but they will be happy, and that's what counts.

 

I'm not trading my R-D1 for an M8. To me, the difference in crop factors and pixels just isn't enough to justify the switch, and the cost differential seems unreasonable now that I know what an R-D1 can do. Perhaps the difference will ultimately come in terms of longevity, as I don't intend to resell my R-D1. I just intend to run it through as many shutter cycles as it will handle until it blows up, and then buy the next big digital rangefinder, which by then probably won't be the M8. With the M8's Leica-built quality, it should outlive any number of R-D1s, but I wonder how many M8s will be produced before Leica comes out with a full-frame M9?

 

The attraction of Leica for many over the years has been its conservatism. M3s, M2s and M4s are far from obsoloscent compared to M6s, M7s and MPs. By entering the digital realm, Leica has to embrace the faster development times and shorter product life-cycles associated with the technology. Great products indeed, but we as consumers have to be prepared as well.

[ray .]

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!

[majid]

Not my main Leica body (a MP), but I did resell my second body, a M6TTL and refrained from buying a Zeiss Ikon despite being sorely tempted.

 

The M8 is a real M. I think black & white film will linger forever (easy and cheap to make, develop and print), but E-6 is another story entirely. There is only one E-6 lab left in San Francisco, and I can easily conceive of color processing options becoming as limited in the near future as those for Kodachrome today.

[william_jorion]

<< I promise many of those switching will live to regret the choice and buy back back in at a premium. >>

 

A lot of truth in this. The M-eight is great, but don't sell a mechanical M and lenses at a loss to "help" finance it! If you are going to bite the bullet, just bite the bullet and buy it outright. Just look at the cost differentials. While it might make some sense to sell old gear to buy an R-D1, you'll have to practically empty your footlocker to trade for an M8. Is it really worth it to sell a mechanical M AND beloved lenses to flat-trade for the M8? As others have pointed out above, that Leica glass is Leicly to hold value or appreciate!

[paul_neuthaler]

I just love them!<div></div>

[vinay_patel]

" You'll have to tear them from my old, ragged hands! "

 

Your wife got out the Crazy Glue when you were asleep, eh? Mine has threatened to :-)

[astral]

I'll happily recommend that anyone and everyone should buy an M8. I think it's a wonderful, innovative camera and surpasses everything hitherto produced by Leica. However, personally I don't want one .... but I do want a minty M4 or M6 for peanuts though, so "Buy an M8 today!"

 

For the cost of a M8 (plus digi-lens) I can buy a decent scanner, new PC and A3 printer, and probably enough film and processing to last for a decade as well. When I want the best that digital can offer I scan my 645 negs or slides: when I want Leica image quality and ambience I use an M2/M6 ... and so on. AC

[john_brewton]

Oh c'mon, Paul. Five bucks says you'll have one of the items for sale within six months! We have all seen you swap cameras around like a pea in the shell game. I'll give you one thing - at least you're still hooked on film :)

[jay ott]

Flooding the market with M's is good because that means that the seller will be selling them at lower prices. I'd hate to be the guy selling an M7 or an MP who buys an M8 and decides that he wants to buy them back because he found out that he doesn't like the M8. He's going to take a big hit in the wallet both ways.

[._._z]

<small><i><blockquote>

 

I'd hate to be the guy selling an M7 or an MP who buys an M8 and decides that he wants to buy them back because he found out that he doesn't like the M8.

 

</blockquote> </i> </small><p>

 

I'd hate to be a camera dilettante as well.

[len_smith]

Stuart Richardsonm wrote:

 

>Digital is not the enemy, it is just another way to take pictures.

 

 

Beautifully put, Stewart!

[harvey_edelstein1]

I am waiting for a $1200 M7 with newer flare free finder.

[nolan_ross]

There will be some selling off to raise money. Afterwards some folks will be happy and others not so happy. Depends on if the M8 is really improves their photography. If you read Black and White magazine the successful pro's there never even mention their equipment. It's more about what they want to accomplish rather than going shopping.