M8 - Is 28 frameline shown for 24 mm lens?

[tom5]

Which framelines on the M8 are brought up by mounting a 24mm lens? I bring this question up because

the Zeiss 25mm lens brings up the 28/90 frames on my M6. I would think that the Zeiss lens would use

the same frame line selection method as the Leica 24mm. If this is so, then the Leica 24mm lens would

bring up the 28/90 frame lines on a M6/M7.

 

But, the M8 apparently shows the 24mm frame with the frame for the 35mm lens. I can imagine several

explanations for what is happening with the M8: 1) I'm wrong about the Leica 24mm lens and it actually

brings up 35mm framelines on the M6/M7. In this case, Zeiss would have decided to use a different

standard than Leica for the 25mm lens. 2) When old Leica 24mm lenses are converted to have the 6 bit

code, perhaps the mount is switched out for one that brings up the 35mm frame instead of the 28/90

combo.

 

I haven't seen anyone post an answer to this question. It would be nice if the Zeiss 25mm lens brings up

the 24mm frame on an M8, though I suppose that the 28mm framelines would be usable.

[Richard Williams]

24/35 is presumably just the new default pair (what you get with no lens mounted, or with any lens that doesn't select anything different) so a Leica 24mm will have the correct frameline.

[Richard Williams]

...and if the Zeiss 25mm brings up the 28/90 pair on the M6, it will still do this on the M8. Zeiss were perhaps trying to be a bit too clever here, designing the lens to bring up the nearest standard frame. I suppose (if they were thinking of M users at all) they didn't anticipate that Leica would ditch 135mm compatibility in favour of the new 24mm frameline (for what will now become a commonly used lens on the 'cropped' digital sensor).

[owen w.]

I've not handled the M8, but the 24 ASPH brings up the 35 framelines on the film M bodies. Frankly, I've always found this annoying, particularly on the .58 body, but that is merely MHO.

[dan_kreithen]

According to Sean Reid, the Zeiss 25mm lens brings up the 28mm framelines on the M8. The 24mm Elmarit-M brings up the 24mm framelines. I suspect that the Zeiss lens might be able to be modified to bring up the proper framelines, but don't know for sure.

[herve_laurent]

hey Tom,

When I saw the details of the framelines in the M8, I asked myself the same question as I

want the lens that would bring the widest lines on the M8. The reason why the 25 zeiss

brings the lines of the 28 mm in the M6, m7 is because Zeiss decided so. The reasoning

behind it is that they think users would prefer to have things on the film that they did not

inetnded when composing rather than the reverse. Personnaly, considering the

rangefinders and the M in particluar are framing very wide( there is always plenty on the

neg that I did not want) I would prefer the 25 mm to show the 24mm but I am not the

majority.

I doubt very much that Zeiss and the others will have two different versions of the same

lens

This is good news as it will help leica to sell a lot of other lenses. I don't mind the crop

factor as per se , as some others have posted on this site and elsewhere, the problem is

for those of us who want to use their film' M's and the M8 we will have to swap some

lenses or add some more.

[mark_norton2]

Pre-M8, the widest frame on any Leica was 28mm so this was the only choice for Zeiss. With the M8, the widest frame is 24mm (which is actually the same FoV as a 32mm lens in full frame) but the Zeiss lens will still bring up the 28mm. It would be possible to convert the lens so that it bring up the 24mm either by fitting a new lens mount or by grinding away a few mm of the flange which sets the frame set. That flange is shorter for a 24/35/135 lens than it is for a 28/90 lens. If you have a steady hand and a dremel, you could do it in a few minutes.

[Richard Williams]

'The reasoning behind it is that they think users would prefer to have things on the film that they did not inetnded when composing rather than the reverse.'

 

I think it's even simpler than that. Before the M8, the widest available frameline in Leica or Zeiss cameras was 28mm, so they went for that. Their other choice would have been to use the same mount as the 35mm etc., which doesn't change the default framelines (35 only on the Ikon, 35/135 on the M6, and now 24/35 on the M8 - presumably Zeiss didn't know about the M8's framelines when designing the 25mm).

 

Incidentally, I suppose anyone with a Voigtlander 25mm LTM Skopar gets to choose which framelines they want on the M8 - a 28/90 M adapter will obviously give you the 28, and a 35/135 will give you the 24.

[Rob F.]

Bringing this around full circle to the original question:

 

"But, the M8 apparently shows the 24mm frame with the frame for the 35mm lens. I can imagine several explanations for what is happening with the M8: 1) I'm wrong about the Leica 24mm lens and it actually brings up 35mm framelines on the M6/M7."

 

Yep. That's it, Tom. You nailed it. The 24mm does bring up the 35mm frameline in my M6. With the .72 or .85 finders, it also brings up the 135 frameline. With the .58 finder, and, I'm sure, with the .68 finder on the M8, the 135mm frameline is omitted. That would mean that with the addition of a 24mm frame on the M8, the finder will be no more cluttered than before: it would have just the 24 and 35mm frames in one view.

 

So: the 24 does bring up the 35mm frame. That the ZM 25 brings up the 28mm frame has no bearing on that.

 

It works out so nicely, it's enough to make you think Leica had this all thought out in advance . . .

[andyaitken]

C'mon folks, this is simple as long as you view it the right way. The old Leica framelines were: (short lug) 35/135, (medium lug) 50/75, (long lug) 28/90. All that's changed on the M8 is that a short lug lens (ie. any 35mm, 135mm and, as I understand, any Leica 21mm and 24mm lenses) will now bring up 24mm and 35mm frames (the 135mm frame is deleted).

 

So you can file some of the lug off of any other lens so that you get it to trigger the 24/35 pair. As no film rangefinder has a 24mm frame anyway you have nothing to lose. So if your Zeiss 25mm brings up the 28mm frame normally you can file the lug down until it brings up the 24/35 pair. Even if you file too much off you will still get the 24/35 pair.

 

It's a mechanical thing.

[Rob F.]

But don't file unless you know which surface of the lug to file. Saying that the lug needs to be "short" to bring up the 35 frame can be misinterpreted. Don't make it short in the wrong way!