ratings, bad-mannered and delete an image when is into a photo critique deleting some comments

[mario2]

To all community of photographers

 

Hello I'm Mario;I'm a community member since 2005,I'm writting to you in order

to make some suggestions about diferent aspects that I observed concerning to:

Rates,bad-manered comments and the possibility of deleting a photo when being at

critique forum.

First of all,when talking about rates I dissagree with this point:some people

wants rate any photo must be affilied at photo.net,because if gives low rates

don't give the possibility to the photographer to defend himself by technical

means.why the raters are anonymous?is fair for members and for any people to

have the possibility to deffend.

Secondly,I have observed that some members give opinnions about photos in a bad

-mannered way and they have the "cheek" of not showing any photos at his

portfolio, this is uncceptable from a ethical point of view.

Finally, when a person put some image into "photo critique", the sys. shouldn't

allow the possibility to delete this image.In my case, I commented a image and

a few days later I realized that the photographer had erased this photo,my

comment and another ones.It was clear that my technical comment was adecuate and

accurate about technical aspects, don't know respect an opinnion, where is the

spirit of learning, this kind of web, give us the possibility to improve the

photography knowledges.

PD:I think that there is another important thing,the fact to preserve a good

ambience and cordiality,this is an essencial point between human relations.

I do hope you,consider my proposals and study the possibility of changing any

aspects related to all talked beforehand.Thanks in advace for your cooperation.

What do you think about this three questions?(this mail was send to photo.net

and I didn't received any notice)why?

Sincerely

Mario Lopez

[james_frater]

"I have observed that some members give opinions about photos in a bad mannered way and they have the "cheek" of not showing any photos at his portfolio, this is uncceptable from a ethical point of view."

 

First off, RUBBISH, most critics in the modern world cannot produce works like the masters or even the amatures. Most food and art critics could not make a food dish or paint a picture to save their life, but in many cases people's careers hang on their every word.

 

So to say that you cannot give a critique unless you yourself are actually active in the photo taking business is a foolish thing to say, and in the real world will most likely get you panned by these non talented critics who are paid high amount of money for their taste buds or keen eye on what is good or bad.

 

As for critique's in this forum, I think 70% of the critique responses are rubbish, I have seen some trashy photo's that will have people responding in a manner of praise that would make me vomit.

 

The critique section I think is a waste of space, because the first time you give a negative critique (and I do not mean being rude or abusive) some photographers can get real nasty in their responses.

 

You talk about ethics, but your ethics are wrong.

 

If you put something up to be commented and critiqued then that is what will happen.

 

It is not a world of you show me yours and I will show you mine and we will all sing together and give praise.

 

After all in the real world it is the simple folk who will either want to hang your picture on the wall or not want too.

 

Really, if you want to be judged by your peers, then I suggest you create your own website, find some photographer on here you like, send them an email to your site, get them to critique your images that way.

 

As for removing images that have negative comments, well unless you have made enemies and have somone who is bagging everyone of your images, then removing the image maybe a good thing, cause it may just have been rubbish to begin with.

 

Photographers on here seem to think that only praise should be heaped upon all their images.

 

That is why I do not bother with the critique sections anymore, because some people cannot take being shot down. Which makes me wonder why the hell they put the image up for critique in the first place.

 

I suggest those people look up a dictionary and find what the meaning of the word "critique" actually stand for.

 

Turst me, it is not to heap praise and only say good things.

[james_frater]

Oh I forgot the most important thing.

 

Photographers have to realise that critique's are usually only aimed at their image, and not a personal attack. Which I think most times they assume it is a personal attack.

 

That is unless all your images are given a negative comment, then maybe that photographer needs to takes some lessons.

[sideris]

Well Mario, I hope you understand that my comment isn't an attack to you, but the opposite. I agree with some of your concerns, but in general lines I don't agree with your statements about it. I guess that Jimmy Smith is in the right way.

At all, ratings looks like destinated to feed our egoes. Don't care about that. If you wish to learn and improve just follow your feelings and you'll get best results, or take a look on the pages of the really great photographers, there are a lot in here. Greets.

[keith turrill]

To address some of Mario's issues, my own experience has been that those who are most critical have the least amount of and usually no talent of their own to show for it. If an account is giving ratings but has no useful content, you must consider that it could be a shill for somebody with two accounts.

 

As far as photographically challenged critics are concerned I would draw on an old saying that, "Nobody learns anything with his or her mouth open." The same goes for banging out 3's on a keyboard.

[terri1]

I just have a short comment on the last point re: deleting a photo that's been submitted for critique. It's quite possible the deletion had nothing at all to do with your comments. I submitted a photo for critique, and when it got only ratings and no comments, I deleted it and resubmitted it for critique only. There was another one that I sumitted because I loved the subject. When it got pretty low ratings, I looked at it again and realized they were right -it really WASN'T up to par. I took it down, did a better job with it and then put it back up later on. Now I spend a little more time on images before putting them up. <br>

<br>

Although there were no comments on mine, I would have done the same even if there had been. I'm sure the photographer read your comments, which is the point of leaving them, right? I'm quite sure a year or two down the road when I feel my portfolio is getting too large, I'll delete older photos & some of them may have comments on them as well. Again, it's probably nothing personal toward you or your comments that the critique photo was removed. Regards -

[stephen hazelton]

I think it should be possible to delete photos that have been critiqued, and that should not be changed.

 

The point of the critique is primarily for the photographer, so once that person has read anything that's been written, it's not too critical whether the picture stays or not.

 

I've seen some portfolios where the people had 500 or more photos in one humongous folder, and it took forever to look at the portfolio. They obviously needed to delete a bunch of stuff- not that it was bad, just they had too much clutter for it to be useful.

 

On the anonymous/not anonymous thing, they've gone back and forth on it, and there just isn't a good solution. Anonymous allows people to give bad ratings on good photos, which isn't the intent. Non-anonymous allows people receiving bad ratings to go seek revenge, which is even farther off the mark. When you feel the need to "defend himself by technical means", you're obviously missing the point of the ratings/ critique system. It's not a game of Battleship.

[mg]

What Jimmy Smith said.

 

Perhaps if more people would realize what a critique is supposed to be, and that perfect pictures are extremely rare, there would be more interesting things to read all over the gallery pages.

[mario2]

Thanks for yours comments,in a few days I'm going to respond to all.

[bennyboy]

Jimmy,

 

If you want to swing by and offer some constructive critiques on my work you'd be very welcome.

[james_frater]

Ben,

 

I am no expert. I do not buy paintings or photo's based on technical ability. I always speak on whether the image looks good to me or not.

 

I gave up on giving opinions when I gave an opinion about a studio portrait that looked like the brightness and contrast levels really needed to have been corrected, you know, the one where there is a dullness, but adjust the levels and the clarity is great, and was told by the photographer as to 'what would I know.'

 

To which I replied, I simply would not want that picture to hang on my wall looking like that.

 

As I said photo critique options I think are stupid, because I read nothing more than. "Oh, I love this shot, great work."

 

I would rather hear something. "yes great shot, how about cropping here or there, how about having the light show more details here, or how about having the person do this or that"

 

Nope, it's all "Great shot, good work once again"

[laurent_jaussi]

As a recent member (and average amateur photographer) I 've been following discussions

on ratings/critics that have appeared from time to time in here...I have to say that I can

understand the points raised by Mario in his thread but I mostly agree with Jim's

arguments in that critiques (in any field) don't need to be perfomed by people actually

involved in playing...

 

...in fact quite the opposite...profesionnal critics in cooking , art, sports, stock analysis,

etc...should be totally independant of the players involved...OK here the situation is much

smoother (no money involved, just peolple that might feel uncomfortable with the rating

and critiques...and number of approval/visit they receive)... I see this site as an exchange

of experience and skills between photographer of any kind (pro, amateur, beginners,

etc...)...not more, not less...

 

...like they are good and bad photo in here, there are good and bad critiques...a good

critique should only depend on the photo being considered and be understood on its sole

merit...I have seen people reacting to critics by looking at the photo of the critiquer...this

means that either the point of critique is not understood and/or the photographer is

looking to consider and downplay the critique based on the level of the critiquer...this is

not a good reply, he should rather question the critique by explaning his photo...not more

not less...

 

As for deleting photo, I think people putting photo in here have every rights to do what

they want with their photos (deleting them as they want)...but if one does that too often he

will discourage contructive critiquers...the same if you have bad reaction to critics and

ratings...you discourage the constructive peolple and encourage the bad ones...

the only reaction to out of context critiques or political rating is to ignore them and

concentrate on the ones that are justified by the own merit or non-merit of the photo...

 

It takes time to write a few lines on a photo...so good critiques should be respected as well

as photos and photographer...

 

I feel sorry for peolple like Jim that do not want to critique anymore, because looking at

some of his critiques, I think that he gave some very good advice (seeming maybe a bit

agressive from time to time)...but being shaked sometimes can be good...wether by

critiques or by rating...you progress in reaction...not by hearing you are a master all the

time...

 

now if someone likes a photo and have no time to really do critique...a few word of

encouragment cannot be bad as well..after all everybody needs both to be sharked and

encouraged from time to time.....

[joe baker pine bush ny]

when another photographer tells me simply good job or well done, that is enough to comfirm to me that the photo really is well done.

quiet offten i thought i had done a good job,and then thru comments i find were i could have done better. my point; to me any comment is better than no comment,and a really well done critique is worth it,s weight in gold.

[sideris]

Chapeau Laurent, I agree, sometimes we need a shake and sometimes an encouraging "well done" as well. Anyway, I insist, all the mountains of opinions (even opinions of excellent professional photographers) are subjective point of views, of course that the technical facts as focus, framing, light, etc etc are just that. Technical facts. At all, we are here just for learning and fun, even we should pay to be, so, less dramatism and relax.

[CharlesBecker-Toronto]

I have to agree with Joe; quite often saying/being told "I like it, good job" is all that is necessary. Some great shots break 'the rules' and some great photographers shots are well received only because of who took them. I'd rather have 10 people tell me they like one of my pictures rather than have 10 people tell me that it's technically perfect. cb

[namurray]

Mario, with regard to anonymous raters and bad mannered critiques, I think we just have to accept them as part and parcel of Photo.net. No use fretting, just let low ratings and scathing critiques spur you on to new levels of photography.

 

When I put up my first photo for critique I got a rude awakening. I submitted what I considered one of my very best shots and sat back confidently waiting for 6's and 7's and heaps of complimentary critiques to arrive. Instead, no one was much interested in my photo. I got only seven anonymous ratings amounting to 4.5/4.0 and only one critique. Talk about a blow to the ego.

 

But in fact it was the best thing that ever happened to me photographically. That and subsequent ratings and critiques on other photos brought me right down to earth. I realised I had a long,long way to go. I still get hammered on submissions but it just makes me try harder.

 

As Abraham Lincoln once said "Every one likes a compliment". I am no exception. I'll take all the "good jobs", "well dones" and "great shots" that people want to send my way.

[gib]

It should always be a possibility for the photographer to delete any of his/her photos that they have posted on PN....whether for critique and ratings or critique only or just posted in a folder.

[mario2]

Thanks to all, some answers help me to clarify some aspects. I�m aware that some important professional critics about �artistic world� don�t know to do: photos, food, writing, and musical composition�,although in my imho, doing a critique in some occasions, needs to held about knowledge and understanding of some important parameters, another point is if the image likes or doesn�t like.

I�m completely agree with Carlos Chavez, �At all, ratings looks like destinated to feed our egos � this can be good and bad�. In fact I don�t bother about if the ratings are very low, I prefer a bad comment about my photos ( if it helps me to learn) instead of receiving a low rating or a hypocrite comment.

Nothing better than a good constructive critic to awake us and get involved to evaluate my own job.

I agree too, that sometimes we need an opinion that encourages us; another important point for me into Photo net is the communicating with others, keeping cordial relations between us and exchanging opinions always with good manners.

About bad mannered critiques Neil said �we just have to accept them as part and parcel of Photo.net.� I agree to you Neil.

Reading again my old post, perhaps the image about my suggestion had, to a certain extend, a dramatic attitude.

I�m very keen on taking photos and ,for sure I�m learning a lot by viewing and reading good photographers works in this site. Greetings

[chuckatwoofhaven]

Well, I was surprised to read Jimmy's statement that he avoids giving critiques because the photographer often jumps down his throat. I think that is a shame. My biggest gripes about critiques ar that (1) there aren't enough of them, and (2) they are too positive most of the time.

 

I go out of my way to suggest something that could be improved upon, even if I love the photo. If I cannot come up with any negative comment, I usually say nothing or post a comment that explains what I think is unique or particularly interesting about the shot. Filling up the critique section with a bunch of "good job" comments is a waste of space.

 

When I post my own shots, I am always disappointed that I don't get any critiques most of the time. I would love to have people like Jimmy open up both barrels -- that's how you learn. Now I am beginning to understand why comments are so rare.

[manuel barrera houston,]

As to deleting, every one should have the right to delete when ever one choses to. I have just recently started posting here, so I will not be deleting anything that was placed for rating any time soon, however, I have belong to other photographers group and have never had my feeling hurt because some one deleted a photograph on which I have commented on. Maybe my ego is not big enough and it needs to grow?