Going from DSLR to compact, need guidance

[final cut cafe]

I am a photography hobbyist. I enjoy making decisions in my photography and

using Aperature and Shutter priority modes. I presently have an Olympus E-300

and in the past I have used Canon Elan 7 and Nikon FG film cameras. I find

myself doing my hobby mostly on weekend mini-vacations and longer vacations.

I've noticed lately that taking my DSLR with my has not been the most enjoyable

experience. I am constantly worried about it getting wet at amusement park rides

or at the beach. I am looking for a solution that is much less bulky than an SLR

but provides manual and automatic control.

 

I have been researching digicams that will come out this month or next and that

are features at Photokina 2006. I understand the dissadvantages of going from a

DSL to a digicam in terms of sensor size and noise, but quite frankly I

priorities a smaller more compact form factor over that. My priority use to be

bigger slr is better but then I noticed myself taking fewer and fewer pictures

while traveling. I use to use an L class Canon lens that was pretty heavy, after

all.

 

What I would like is some guidance in terms of digicam shopping. I do not want a

simple point and shoot. I want a camera with strong optics, manual control,

lower noise and an almost pocketable form factor. Here is a list of cameras I

have followed:

 

Canon Powershot G7

Panasonic Lumix DMC LX2

Leica D-Lux 3

 

Of these cameras, which one would suit me best? Are there any others out there

that I should consider? Thanks in advance.

[final cut cafe]

I forgot to mention. I have been worried over maximum aperatures at F8 with many digicams. I'm use to being able to shoot at F11, F16 and F22 for lanscapes. Does F8 pose a problem with DOF in digital?

[final cut cafe]

I've noticed the Panasonic Lumix LX2 is almost identical to the Lecia D-Lux 3? Is there a difference or are they really the same on the inside?

[vandit]

I have the G6 and the Panasonic LX1 (which is more or less the same as the D-Lux 2). My thoughts:

 

1/ The price premium of the D-Lux2 isnt worth it for me. I shoot in RAW mode, and so a differently-implemented image processing engine doesnt add a lot of value.

 

2/ Comparing the G6 to the LX1, I find that the LX1 is a lot more intuitive to use. The G6 is more menu driven, while the LX1 is more button-driven. That makes the LX1 a lot easier - even pleasurable - to use.. and I certainly have taken better photos with it, as a result. I imagine it will be similar between the G7 and the LX2 - although the G7 does have an ISO control knob (bravo!)

 

3/ The G6 has a cleaner image at pretty much all ISOs. Use Noise Ninja, however, and the LX1's images are clean enough even at higher ISOs. If you shoot JPEGs, the G7 will definitely end up being a lot cleaner than the LX2.

 

Given my history with the older versions of the camera you are considering, I'd get the LX2. The lack of RAW on the G7 pretty much kills it as an option.

 

Vandit

[final cut cafe]

hanks for your response. I'm not interested in RAW anymore. I just shoot JPEG on the highest quality setting now-a-days. I am however interested in low noise. So if RAW is not needed, would you still recomend the LX2 over the G7? And why is it the G7 produces images with less noise? Isn't the sensor in the LX2 a little bit bigger?

[final cut cafe]

Is the G7 much bigger than the LX2?

[howardfuhrman]

Charles,

I have a Casio Z850. It's greatest attribute is it is compact and pocketable - even in jeans; it has many manual controls and I get good results. It has a large bright LCD which can be used even in bright sunlight and is very responsive. The G6 and G7 are not pocketable and weight substantially more than the Z850. Good luck in your decision.

[phule]

<<Does F8 pose a problem with DOF in digital?>>

 

Run the calculations and see for yourself:

 

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

 

The short answer is no. You will rarely even need f/8.

 

None of the new Canon cameras with the Digic III engine have been reviewed yet (that I'm aware of, at least) so they handle the noise from the new Sony sensors, especially the 10MP one, remains to be seen.

 

There's no reason to spend all that extra cash on the Leica name. It's the same as the Panasonic DMC-L1.

 

The G7 lens starts at 35mm (equivalent) whereas the LX2 lens starts at 28mm (equivalent). If you're looking for a wide-angle, you might wait for the newly announced Canon SD800 IS.

 

<<I am constantly worried about it getting wet at amusement park rides or at the beach.>>

 

None of the cameras you've mentioned have any sort of water or weather-proofing. So, they're not going to handle these conditions any better.

 

It is not likely anyone here can tell you which camera is right for you. Both options are good choices, and both cameras can be used to produce stunning images. You should wait until your local camera store has both in-stock and then go in and see which you prefer holding and which feels more responsive.

[michael s.]

Responding generally to your second question -- your concern about a max aperture of f/8 -- I have found this to be no problem at all.

 

Due to the small sensor size, the d.o.f. of virtually all these cameras is extensive even when shooting at apertures wider than f/8. In fact, I'm often seeking *less* d.o.f. than a p & s digital camera is willing to provide; but I've never had the opposite problem.

 

Cannot comment on the specific new cameras on your list, because I haven't seen them in person or used them, nor seen enough photos (any photos ?) taken by those who have used them. As an old Canon G2 owner, however, I'll say this much: unless Canon left the G7 in the dryer for a loooong time, it will not be pocketable. :)

 

Waist pouch yes, field jacket pocket perhaps, but pants or shirt pocket -- no.

[final cut cafe]

How pocketable is the LX2?

[phule]

<<How pocketable is the LX2?>>

 

That would depend on your pockets, wouldn't it?

 

Try looking at these cameras side-by-side

 

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sidebyside.asp

[michael s.]

I see Rob's post got in ahead of mine. The new Canon SD800 IS will indeed be a pocketable camera. Very possibly worth a look.

 

For me, though, the tiny size of many such cameras has made me hesitate. They don't fit my large hands so well, and I do not regard myself as sufficiently steady-handed. Finally, the smallest cameras have in the past tended to bury manual controls in deeper menus ... when they have them at all.

[final cut cafe]

Thanks! That is a wonderful tool! I'm leaning towards the LX2 because of the wider Leica lens and size but how do they compare in terms of overall image quality?

[phule]

<<Thanks! That is a wonderful tool! I'm leaning towards the LX2 because of the wider Leica lens and size but how do they compare in terms of overall image quality?>>

 

As the Canon cameras are not even for sale yet and the LX2 hasn't been reviewed (that I've seen) that would be impossible to tell.

 

You could read the review of the LX1 and extrapolate a bit, but not too much.

 

I personally would wait for the reviews before making a decision. But that's just me.

[tech-pan]

While I favor Nikon SLR/DSLR's, I love Canon Digicams and am currently loving my A620. I have been getting fantastic shots with it.

 

I am not the type of person who goes on vacation with a SLR/DSLR. I perfer to mold into the crowd and not look like every other tourist with a camera hung around their neck.<div></div>

[final cut cafe]

I surely want something that is pocketable. How about the Canon Powershot S80? I like the LX2 but I read about a petition online to get Panasonic to release an update to the LX2's firmware where you could turn off the noise reduction. One reviewer said with the Panasonic's Venus III chip there is so muc noise reduction that the images look water color almost, even when NR is set to low. That worries me.

[phule]

The S80 has been discontinued.

 

How about the Canon A710 IS?

[final cut cafe]

Boy I really like the Lumix LX2. I've read some other use reviews that praise it so I don't know yet. Canon A710 IS is only 7.1MP. I guess that is sufficient for my needs, not sure. It looks bigger than the LX2, though. I'm really liking the size and weight of the LX2 and the aesthetics of the camera. The Canon A710 IS also has a smaller sensor. it is 1/2.5" in size versus the LX2's 1/1.65" and the G7's 1/1.8". I have decided that a pocketable form factor is a priority. Then image quality and zoom.

[final cut cafe]

The CAnon 710 is deffinetly out. I'm now researching the 800 IS and the 900. The 900 has no stabilization but has 10MP while the 800 has 7MP. I'm wondering now if I will need the extra resolution. The 800 also has a smaller sensor at 1/2.5" in size while the 900's is 1/1.8" Still I favor the Panasonic Lumix LX2. I just hope the images look nice and not plasticy or water colory. Has the LX2 begun shipping?

[michael s.]

Don't know how else to put this: chasing after more and more megapixels on a tiny sensor is a sucker's game.

 

Those megapixels may or may not improve the picture-taking capability of the camera. On the little sensor, 7 mpxl vs. 8 mpxl vs. 10 mpxl may be utterly meaningless -- or worse. (The 10 mpxl, depending upon filtering/noise reduction, etc., etc., might actually prove to be the inferior camera.)

 

Not a reliable measuring stick, in my opinion.

[mr._smith]

The removal of several features from the G6 has pretty much killed it for a lot of people.

 

The G6 used to have a great lens. The G7 now has the same lens as the A710IS.

 

Why bother with the G7 when the A710IS can be had for a better price. And as the reviewer of Dpreview once remarked, going to 10mp doesnt add much in terms of details.

[final cut cafe]

Wow that makes the G7 pretty unapetizing. At this point the model that stands out the most

to me is the Lumix LX2. I like how you can change the aspect ratio from the lens and how it

has a physical dial on top. The optical image stabilizer is also nice. It seems to have a larger

sensor for its category. I see it is already for sale online but I'm not sure if that is just pre-

order but this is my top choice so far.

[wheelie52]

I have to add a vote for the Canon A620, I just bought one and to be honest when looking at the end results compared to my D70s I now go a lot of places with the Canon where I previously would have taken the Nikon.

 

I have read that the Ricoh GR Digital 8MP is pretty good ... shoots in raw format but does have a prime lense. Saw some photos posted with one that were impressive!

 

Wilson Tsoi's gallery of pics taken with a 620 are mind boggling ... mind you he's some photographer!

[nels]

There's still no ideal pocketable compact digicam that meets my needs. I own the Pana LX2 and Canon A620, and they both have their plusses and minuses.

 

Pros for LX2: Image stabilization, just barely pocketable, 28mm, RAW mode, 16:9 format.

 

Cons for LX2: No swivel LCD, no secondary optical viewfinder.

 

Pros for A620: Swivel LCD, secondary optical viewfinder, use of AA batteries.

 

Cons for A620: No image stabilization, no RAW, no 28mm, not easily pocketable.

 

If the LX2 had a swivel LCD, it might have been a bit thicker, but I still would have preferred it. Add an optical viewfinder, and you'd have a close-to-perfect camera.

 

I am no camera tester, and couldn't care less for pixel peeping at 100%, etc., but resolution wise, the LX2 is up there with A620, perhaps a notch better because of its 10MP sensor, but not a whole lot better.

 

Above anything else, the one thing that really attracted me to LX2 was the 16:9 mode. It's both a joy and a challenge to compose with. I posted some 16:9 shots at the link below, if you're curious to check them out.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00I4Kc

 

Cheers.

[final cut cafe]

Nels, how do you own an LX2? Didn't it just come out? What camera did you use to take

those 16x9 pictures? Wait.. no optical viewfinder? I didn't even notice before but the LX2 has

no viewfinder! Just the LCD. How good is the LCD? This would be something new for me. In

the past I only used the LCD to see the picture after it was taken. I have always used an

optical viewfinder for composition. I guess there is a good side to this. I will no longer have

to press my face up against my camera and look through a little window if I were to

purchase the LX2.