Work has asked me to shoot event for them

[cwk]

Sorry a bit of an epic this post.

 

I am a manager in an office and my company is having a football(soccer)

tournament with over 30 teams.

 

I am not a professional photographer but am working on my portfolio and

building a business slowly. My work have found out i am a keen photographer

through various people, and seen some of my work. As a result, the

marketing/publicity department have approached me and asked if i would like to

cover this event on their behalf.

 

clearly this is a good opportunity and it may lead to more corporate events

with them. I am not expecting to get paid for this (at least not for the first

time) as i am obviously salaried for certain hours etc and this is not in my

contract.

 

They want to release a few images to the local press? Do i have any legal

rights over the images i take?

 

Does anyone have any idea on how i should approach the subject of getting paid

for future commisions through my employer?

[todd peach seattle, washi]

There's lots of legal/employment issues here that I'm not qualified to go into. I think one key sticking point is if you do it for free the first time, that will establish expectations from there on out.

 

FWIW, I shoot 'on the job' as a peripheral part of my duties. In general, I get paid for it; that is, my salary is paid 'by the hour', and if I have to be someplace on the weekend to shoot on behalf of my employer, I get paid. An exception is some volunteer work I do for Special Olympics. I would volunteer anyway, but my employer also gets a benefit by saying that "300 employees supported this event".

 

In a few instances my boss has asked me to come out and shoot something outside of working hours (e.g. publicity photos for a community choir he is in). Since that is not company related, the choir pays me directly.

 

Touchy area, but I think once you set the tone that 'you work for free', you're stuck. This would be particularly true if you are in management, at least in my area.

[pico_digoliardi]

Consult with your Human Resources department. They have an attorney, your contract, and the final word. This is not a place for good legal advice.

 

I am paid hourly for photography I do on the job: $72 an hour, but the employer has all rights to the images. It works for me.

[craig_gillette]

(In the US?) Reviewing your contract with HR will help you determine if you are in a salaried exempt position or how this relates to your job duties, etc.

 

Having an established second business would make it easier to get paid, much as they'd pay a non-employee photographer if they had to go out and hire one. Whether you can or should get paid can be different and may raise intangible office political issues.

 

Assuming you aren't in a position where a work for hire relationship exists (unlikely but again, clear with HR), then the rights would be yours. You need to work this issue in writing to avoid future problems with image use. Clarifying your rights to "use" the images is important. Copyright isn't necessarily the same as having the right to use them commercially. What "release" authority exists for any of the images to use them for your own commercial uses? (As defined in local laws - this changes somewhat from place to place.) The company probably needs to be aware of this as well. Someimes "newsletters" that might be pretended to be "editorial" are advertising in disguise.

[cwk]

Thank you all for your prompt and informative replies. I will definitely speak to my HR department. As for the issue of payment, this has not been discussed either way yet, so i will gather all the info i need first and approach it softly.

 

I am not intending using any of these images commercially, but having said that if any of the clients wanted prints for thier offices then i would clearly need to charge for that.

 

Lots to think about, but thanks again.

 

Craig (UK)

[keith turrill]

Labor law in the US would not be applicable to the UK. I was an engineer for a large multi-national in the US and my position was FLSA-exempt salary. When I was young, I shot a lot of 35mm transparencies for industrial communications. My employer's policy was that they were entitled to any employee skills at any time, and they owned the intellectual property rights to any work product. The HR lawyers are real sweethearts.

 

Since taking photos was not part of my, the last time that I transerred, I simply forgot how to do it.

[bill c.]

Craig-- The previous respondent was correct when he said that if you did it for no extra charge your employer would expect that forever. However, here are a few things to consider:

 

- You would be getting a whole lot of experience shooting so many games, and there is a good possibility of building your portfolio if that's the stuff you want to shoot.

 

- You could certainly send a letter to your boss with a copy to the HR department stating that you would be happy to shoot the event for no service fee this time, but you would consider photography to be a money-making hobby and expect it to remain outside the scope of your job description, though you might do it for no charge in the future and consider it to be largess on your part. Another thing you could do is make out an invoice at current hourly rates with all line items marked at 100% discount (see possible exception below). That way you will not be charging them for your photography but they will know how much you value your time. If there is any charity associated with the event that could act as a reason for the donation.

 

- If you are doing this under the auspices of your employer, then you will be covered by their insurance and it will be their liability if any problems occur.

 

-How many frames do you think you're going to take of the entire tournament? With that many teams, you could end up taking thousands or even tens of thousands. THIS IS SUBSTANTIAL WEAR-AND-TEAR ON YOUR CAMERA(S). If you own a lower-end digital SLR, 10,000 shots might represent the MTBF for the shutter system, and that's a substantial repair bill right there. Even if you don't get any money for the photography itself, I would assume that your company would recompense employees for any legitimate expenses, and wear-and-tear on personal equipment is certainly that. I would estimate the base rate for such costs at about $.01 to $.05 (U.S.) per frame, not including wear-and-tear on an external flash, etc. Research the cost and ask to be recompensed for the expense.

 

Best of luck. -BC-

[Jerry_]

...'tis easy to figure out. Ask your boss/supervisor: "If a bloke runs through me and destroys my camera and lens, will the company replace everything with new equipment?" If the answer is no, decline from the free shooting aspect of the tournament.

 

 

 

 

Nothing is "free," or is it?

[todd peach seattle, washi]

Jerry's point is important, and I neglected to mention it in my earlier post. About ten years ago I had that conversation with my boss as I was headed out on company travel, where I was going to shoot various facilities on a sort of 'fact finding tour'. The conversation went something like, "You know I've always been fine with using my own gear for occasional use here at work, but what happens if it gets stolen or trashed when I'm on the road?" His immediate response was to OK the purchase of gear for my company usage.

[aaron l]

If your company considers you to be doing work for them, they may likely consider your photos "work for hire" meaning they own the image rights. Get this issue resolved before doing the work, otherwise you will be in for a rude surprise.

[thomas_sullivan]

Go see HR, and talk to their lawyers, but get your own lawyer also. Those HR lawyers don't work for you, they work for the company. If you don't ask the right questions, they aren't obligated to divulge anything voluntarily. I hate to say it this way, but go into this expecting to get screwed. They will use everything in their power to make this a company event, a company project, be it on hours or off hours, they will consider it one of your qualifications, and expect you to do it in the future. (ie....do it once, and its in your job qualifications, and is EXPECTED that you will always do it...and if you don't, you will be evaluated accordingly). And then again, they may treat you with full respect and let you deal with them as a private company and pay you all you are worth......heh, right.

 

Sorry for the pessimistic view on corporations, but that is how they are. Get yourself a lawyer of your own.

[cwk]

I would like to thank you all for your informative answers. I definitely have more of a clue now. I'll do some more reading up on this and then speak to HR.

 

Oh, Im fully expecting to get screwed but thanks for the heads up :)

 

Thank you all again.

 

Craig

[cwk]

Just found this on http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/

 

Who owns the copyright on photographs?

Under law, it is the photographer who will own copyright on any photos he/she has taken, with the following exceptions:

 

If the photographer is an employee of the company the photos are taken for, or is an employee of a company instructed to take the photos, the photographer will be acting on behalf of his/her employer, and the company the photographer works for will own the copyright.

 

So it doesnt sound too good for me being able to negotiate or use any of the images myself. Certainly this makes it clear that if any of the images are to be used in the press(which is almost definite) i will not be able to claim anything for this(including credit)

 

Please correct me if i have misunderstood here.

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

[tom_luongo1]

Definitely a worthwhile angle to have marketing purchase some equipment for your use which just should happen to be compatible with whatever system you are currently using.

 

It would be quite reasonable for you to be paid for this if it is outside normal working hours. Give marketing a modest introductory rate. Agree on a flat fee and give them an invoice for "photographic services". Keeping rights to the photos is less valuable than you might think. What will you do with them? Sell the photos to Newsweek? At best, you may find people have interest in individual photo sales, but that's unlikely to be worth the trouble.

 

Far more valuable may be the exposure you get while shooting company events. At one employer, I was bringing my camera to the fun events - off-site bbqs, parties, and the like - and putting the prints up on the bulletin boards. Soon other employees were asking me to take photos at their weddings (for a fee) which began to lead to other referral business when people like the results.

 

On top of that, the employer began covering all of my film and processing costs, which seemed wonderful because I was only doing it for fun in the first place.

[belen_brisco]

Ok, so this is actually a question not an answer. I have a business/company asking me to do an event for them but shoot for free and make money on the prints. I have asked how many people are we talking about but not yet received an answer. My business is relatively new to the Florida area so I am unsure if this is something others have done. Any feedback would be appreciated.