Plaubel vs. Fuji

[james_crocker1]

I'm looking for a rangefinder that's portable and at least possible

to handhold. I want a wide angle lens and my main subject will be

landscapes. I don't need a choice of lenses, although I'm not

against it either.

I like the 6x9 format so I had pretty much decided on a FUJI

GSW690III. However I've heard of a PLAUBEL 69W PROSHIFT SUPERWIDE

for sale - this camera seems to get praise and it's a beautiful item

(not a reason to buy it I know), but I don't know it. Does anyone

know how the lens compares with Fuji's - which often is described as

one of the best? In truth I don't need the shift lens, so it would

only be worth getting if the lens compares well with the Fuji. How

big / heavy are they compared to one another? Any other issues I

should be aware of, or cameras I should consider? (I'm not

absolutely tied to 6x9)

[gary_yeowell]

I had a Plaubel 69 Proshift about 8 years ago and wish to heck I had kept it, the lens was stunning! have had a couple of Fuji,s since that do not compare at all. You must however make sure the camera comes complete with the 2 stop centre filter as the Super Angulon lens vignettes even unshifted. Although you say you don't require the shift lens it is funny how useful it becomes when you have it at your disposal. If the camera is offered at the right price and you like the way it handles (best on a tripod) I would very much consider it. However alternatives are out there and if 6x9 is not required I would take a long hard look at a Mamiya 7 with a 50mm.

[bob___10]

hi james,

 

i have had 3 plaubel makinas. the 67, 670 and 67w. i have never owned the pro-shift. i beleive the pro-shift has the same lens as the 67w. if you do not need shift it is not necessary to carry the bulk and pay the price for that pro-shift. i have nothing but good things to say about properly working makinas. the meter is great, they fold nocely and the build quality will last you for years.

 

i also have the fuji gswIII. it is , as they say, a leica on steroids. no meter, plastic or resin build, somewhat bulky. great lens and the 6xp is a bit better than 6x7 but not enough to sway me. if you want either a plaubel makina 67w or fuji gswIII email me. i have an extra 67w and want to sell the fuji.

 

bob

[lee hamiel]

May want to consider a Mamiya 6 with the 50 lens - equivilent to a 28 mm for 35mm formats - it's a 6x6 neg but is a great combination.

[gary_yeowell]

Bob,

For your information the Proshift does not have the same lens as the Plaubel 67W. The 67W has a 55mm Nikkor whereas the Proshift has a Schneider 47mm f5.6 Super Angulon lens, they really are very different cameras. Proshift has no metre or rangefinder, lens has to be cocked by hand and is of course 6x9.

[bob___10]

thanks for the correction, gary.

 

bob

[pensacolaphoto]

I have the Graflex XLW with a Schneider 47mm/8 lens. I am very happy with the sharpness and overall quality of slides I am getting with this lens. I can use different backs with the XLW, and I have these: 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, 6x9

[jim_mcbride]

I've never used the Plaubel but I was lucky enough a while ago to use the newest Mamiya

rangefinder on a long-term loan. I think the widest lens was a 43mm (?). In any event, I

don't believe I've ever used a sharper lens or a nicer rangefinder camera. Based on that

experience, I would certainly consider purchasing that camera/lens combination if I decide

to acquire a medium format rangefinder anytime in the near future. That kind of quality is

not inexpensive!

[james_crocker1]

Thank you all for so much information. Well it seems I haven't been doing enough homework! The 67W looks worth learning a bit more about - although the only one I can see on that auction site is on at 2000 euros, which sadly is out of my league. Still I've just read somewhere that the meter often fails because of the position of the wiring - I don't mind using a handheld meter so maybe someone out there has one with non-functioning meter that I could afford? Lee, I am tempted by the Mamiya 6 with a 50mm lens although I was thinking more of a rectangular format. I'll have to think about that. Jim, the Mamiya 7 with the 43mm lens looks fantastic but, as you perhaps suspected, the price is a problem. Bob, I've emailed you for a bit more information about your cameras. Gary, your information is really interesting - so the proshift was obviously better in the images it produces than the Fuji? You have pointed out that the Proshift has no rangefinder - at the risk of looking foolish, how do you see what you're taking? The one I'm looking at says it has a "sport finder" - which looks like it fits on top of the camera, like the viewfinder Mamiya use on the 7 with the 43mm lens. You also note that the Plaubel 67W has a wholly different lens to that in the Proshift, from a different manufacturer. Is the Nikkor lens not as good, do you (or anyone) know? Your suggestion of the Mamiya 7 with the 50mm lens is definitely worth considering. Raid, I've briefly been looking for information on the Graflex but I've not found any yet. Your mention of the interchangable backs makes it sound interesing but it may be that this means it's getting more complex and heavy that I really want. Thank you all again for you time and for the benefit of your collective experience and insight. I've got a lot to think about! James

[james_crocker1]

Rereading your answer, Gary, I've belatedly recognised the importance of your comment about the 2 stop centre filter. The one advertised has a Hoya UV filter only. Is the 2 stop centre filter specific to this camera? I can see that this could make it difficult to find. I'm risking looking foolish again but hey, that's what I'm good at!

[gary_yeowell]

James,

The centre filter was specific to the lens and was labelled Plaubel but i am sure that it would have been manufactured by either Schneider or B+W. If as you say it is missing you will have to budget for a replacement which means either of the above bearing in mind that the filter was from memory a 67mm (for shift purposes)with step down ring to the lens which was smaller. I dont see any problems using Schneider or B+W 2 stop filters but would clarify the size required from a knowledgable dealer first, then hold your breath before getting your wallet out as they cost around 200 uk pounds. I would ask the seller to allow for the lack of filter in the price!

[gary_yeowell]

James,

Sorry I did not read the previous post, the Proshift viewfinder is external and sits on top of the camera with a clever system which moves the finder up and down as the lens is shifted. Yes i was very impressed with the Schneider lens and have found very little in wideangle terms since that compared incuding the Fuji's. The 67W is very good though and i used to hire this a lot but they are very collectable and the pullout lens system can go out of alignment. The Mamiya 7 with 50mm is what i use now as a rangefinder and like it a lot, but the colours produced by the Mamiya never reach the quality of the Schneider or indeed my Hasselblad lenses but it is very sharp!

[william_whitaker1]

<I>"You must however make sure the camera comes complete with the 2 stop centre filter as the Super Angulon lens vignettes even unshifted."</I><P>

That is not true. The lens does not vignette and certainly not while unshifted. All wide angle lenses to some degree exhibit fall-off away from the axis. The center filter is to compensate for that. According to Plaubel, the lens does need to be stopped down to f/16 or smaller to use the full range of the shift.<P>

The front thread of the lens is 52mm. The Plaubel step-up ring adapts to a 77mm thread. The use of filters smaller than 77mm (or stacking filters) will result in mechanical vignetting. But the lens doesn't vignette.

[gary_yeowell]

William,

Are you talking from experience in using the Proshift because i am and rest assured the light falloff even unshifted is very noticeable, the centre filter which comes with the camera is not an optional extra for very good reason. I really don't care what the Plaubel literature says, in use it has light falloff, simple as that. Another two examples of light falloff in lenses which the manufacturer claims unnoticeable is the 43mm for the Mamiya 7 and the 45mm for the X-Pan, both of which vignette like buggery, as an option the X-Pan offers a centre filter but it should come as standard.

[william_whitaker1]

Yes, I am speaking from experience. I never claimed that there was no fall-off; quite the opposite. I stated that the lens does not vignette.

 

I also never stated that Plaubel claimed that the lens does not exhibit fall-off. Perhaps you should re-read my post.

[scott_pommier]

bob, i'm looking for a plaubel makina 67w. please email me.

scottpommier@yahoo.com

 

thanks