4x5 on Medium Format Camera?

[steve_tenggala]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a beginner question, probably a stupid one, but I figure this is

probably the place I can get an answer.

 

Okay, bear with me. I have a Mamiya RZ Pro II camera and I have been thinking

if it's possible to put a 4x5 (or even 8x10) sheet film on the back of the

camera. Of course, the idea is not to put it directly behind the body, but at

certain space behind where the regular 6x7 film would be positioned. This come

to my mind after reading somewhere that one can put 8x10 film on 4x5 camera by

carefully placing the film holder behind the 4x5 film holder position.

 

So, can we used some kind of 4x5 bellows to cover and to seal the light of

that space between the film holder and the 4x5 film back? About where the film

back should be placed, we can always look at the ground glass, where the image

from the lens falls on it, right? I imagine it wouldn't be too hard adjusting

the position, since you can see the images on the ground glass on the spot, as

well as vignetting if any.

 

So far, that's just my theory. Please tell me if I oversimplified how things

work with Large Format photography. The only issue I can think of is the lens

not focusing at infinity. But, the RZ camera itself has a built-in bellows and

if I used bag bellows to cover the space between the camera and 4x5 film

holder, it should compensate the built-in bellow operation (but I'm not sure

if the images would completely fill the 4x5 film. I guess this can be figure

out through trial and error). In fact, maybe I can compensate that focusing at

infinity by working at hyperfocal distance. What do you guys think?

 

Your opinion is truly appreciated.

[justinblack]

Steve,

 

I generally feel that any camera system should be used for it's strengths, and its

weaknesses avoided. As such, I think that in trying figure out how to shoot 4x5 with an

RZ, you would essentially be spending your valuable time and money to turn an

excellent and capable camera into a very limited and handicapped camera. Once you move

up into 4x5 you are really going to need control of the focal plane in order to render good

apparent focus and sharpness throughout the scene. You would be better off buying a

Tachihara and a used lens or two. You'll save both time and money.

 

Best,

 

Justin

[doc_w]

This won't work for a number of reasons, but the main one is that the lenses will not cover the 4x5 format. In any case, I can't even imagine the bizarre kind of ass end you would have to put on a Mamiya RB to make this work. Don't waste your time. If you don't want to spend much money to shoot 4x5, get a Crown Graphic. At least that way, you can shoot 6x7 and 4x5 with it, if you really want to.

[pico_digoliardi]

It sure doesn't hurt to ask. Well, as you learned it won't work because your lenses are designed to come to infinity focus very close to the rear of the lens, therefore you will get only a tiny circle of coverage, far less than even 4x5.

 

If you wish to enter the world of LF, you really have to rather start all over. Want to go there? There's a lot of help in the archives. Search, read, come on back!

[troyammons]

I also looked into this. although the Mamiya site list lenses that cover 4x5 in the end I would bet there would be only a few that would actually work due to rear lens vignetting and that would be on a custom body.

 

It will not work on the standard body due to the body rear opening. I have a 6x9 back on mine and it will barely allow a 72mm x 72mm frame.

[w_t1]

If you are into photography and optics and home experimentation, I recommend reviewing the optics/ray diagram sections of your physics texts. If you didn't take physics in HS or college, I recommend getting a technical physics textbook, which won't have calculus, to review optics. I took the engineering physics series, but due to its simplicity, I refer a lot to a technical physics textbook that was given to me. You can learn a lot by drawing the little candle and the ray diagrams....that coupled with a large format photography book

[steve_tenggala]

Okay, so the consensus is just not feasible, or at least not practical at all. But, what about using 8x10 film on 4x5 camera? Is what read true? Or you can achieve this by using 8x10 lenses? Can somebody enlight me on this technical issue? Thanks.

[troyammons]

With LF the camera body is just a box between the lens and film. I have experimented a bit with a 4x5 and you actually could attach a 8x10 back and bellows to a 4x5 back if the back was scrunched up enough to the lens so that it caused no vignetting.

 

A normal 4x5 lens typically will not cover 8x10. Mot 8x10 lenses start at around 210-240mm and go up. There are a few super WA exceptions like the Nikon 150sw.

 

I started to design a combo lightweight system a while back and I think it could be done from exotic materials, but actually it has already been done somewhat althogh not light.

 

With a camera like the Sinar F2 you can swap out the backs and bellows from 4x5 to 5x7 to 8x10 etc with the same front standard and rail.

 

There are no field cameras that are convertable from 4x5 to 8x10 that I know of.

 

There are no slr 4x5 cameras except for an older graflex super d and I think there was one company either in the usa or england that made a modern version. Gowland might have made one.

 

There was one TLR (twin lens) 4x5 camera made by Gowland.

 

I dont think there were ever any MF cameras convertable to 4x5 although a few are close if modified.

 

One way to shoot all three formats is to buy something like a sinar F2, with a MF roll film clip in 4x5 back, and a spare 8x10 rear standard.

 

Personally I feel like you are just best buying 3 seperate cameras especially for the slr aspect of MF shooting. Rarely would I find myself lugging around 2 heavy systems. When I have in the past its been a 4x5 and a MF Fuji B690gl rangefinder and I was hating life.

 

On the MF end a Kowa super 66, mamiya RB/RZ, Rollei sl66/6008, Hassy etc etc if you want a slr camera.

 

On the 4x5 end I prefer a light all metal and relatively cheap super graphic field camera.

 

Probably the best 8x10 for the $ is an older Kodak masterview, a Wehman or a Phillips.

 

You can share lenses between the 4x5 and 8x10. Portrait on the 4x5 is close to WA on 8x10 depending.

 

So 47mm - 180mm are mostly 4x5 lenses. there are a few 210mm lenses that will cover 8x10. Most 240mm lenses and up will cover 8x10.

 

Also 8x10 is just a heavy beast no matter what. The lenses are heavy, the camera is heavy, you need a heavy duty tripod, and film holders weigh 1.1# each. Also if you have your film processed each slide will cost around $16 but the results are fantastic.

[doc_w]

The main issue is the coverage of the lens. A view camera is just a front standard to hold the lens, a bellows, and a rear standard to hold the film. What limits the format is the diameter of the image circle produced by the lens. The lens must project an image circle onto the film that is larger than the film, if you want to use movments. Some lenses barely cover the format, some have a large image circle that allows you to use extensive movements. The vast majority of lenses made for 4x5 will not cover 8x10. Check out this site for some basic information on large format: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

[erlend sæteren]

There is one medium format camera I know, that is interesting with sheet film (it came

with a 6,5x9cm sheetfilmback), the Mamiya Super 23/Universal Press. They can make fairly

large polaroids on

pack film and If you can fit a 4x5back(is it graflock they call it?), you can use 4x5 film right

away. I guess you will be able to get pictures at ca. 4x4inches. There is a good chance

some of the lenses will cover stopped down a bit. With some extension at the built in

extensionback it will cover focusing close. I wonder if it is possible to adapt rzlenses to

this camera? The 140 macro used on this camera for macrophoto could be a fantastic

solution?!!!!! Is it possible to release the rzshutter independent of the camera with a

cablerelease mounted on the lens? The only bad thing with this idea is that this camera is

not able to tilt the focus , so I believe that a largeformat camera will be more flexible. Best

wishes from Erlend