D70 with MF lenses: is it really that difficult?

[cgarrett]

(I hate to post another D70 question, but a search didn't turn up what I needed to

know, so here it goes...)

I am in a bit of a crunch for cash, but I was able to scrape up enough cash to buy a

used D70 body and I am waiting impatiently for it to arrive. Since my other camera is

a Nikon FE, I have a decent array of AI and AI'd Nikkor MF prime lenses that I plan to

use with the D70 (along with a handheld meter) until I can get my hands on a good

AF lens. Unfortunately, I have heard that it is very hard to obtain decently sharp focus

with MF lenses on the D70 because of the viewfinder's size, brightness, and lack of

focusing aides. Is this true, or am I just misinformed? Thanks.

[errol young]

I have two 50mm 1.8 nikkors, one AF D. I have used both MF and had no problems on my D70. No problem. I do have a 28-80 Vivitar Zoom AF. The travel is so short on the focus ring that I cannot focus it on my FE accurately. It is great on the D70 using AF.

 

I would expect that AI MF lenses would work just fine.

 

Hope this helps.

[anupam]

For most situations the electronic rangefinder focus confirmation will give you 'AF without the speed' for all practical purposes. Its only in areas where AF is useless, like macro focussing that you might face difficulties, but of course it can be done with a little practice.

 

-A

[bwcombs]

Hank,

 

It is not difficult at all to use MF lenses on the D70.

 

The viewfinder on the D70 is not what you're used to on your FE,

but it is certainly not the backbreaker that a lot of naysayers

complain about.

[fourfa]

the AF bracket area is large relative to the frame compared to film cameras. Also the actual focus area is a little bigger than the bracket indicator (at least for the center one, the only one I use). For instance, if using autofocus to pick out an eye in a portrait, 100% of the time I get focus locked on eyebrow. At f4 it doesn't matter, but at wide apertures it can be annoying. It's better by manual focus, but does require concentration (unlike my FE2 where it's hard to miss even without the focus aids) and it's still not 100%.

 

For whatever reason, the difference between eye focus and eyebrow focus is not visible to me in the viewfinder. For reference I'm talking about using a 50mm 1.4 and 85mm 1.8 here. I can't pick out correct focus 100% of the time on the LCD either, even zoomed in all the way. I am not infrequently surprised when I pull up the pics on my computer, and find the focus is not what I had thought.

 

I've been treating it as a new skill that requires practice. In other aspects, the camera's been a treat.

[fourfa]

I meant to add, the rangefinder dot only indicates that it thinks *something* is in focus. In practice I cannot tell the difference between eye and eyebrow with the rangefinder dot.

[leslie_cheung]

I played around with the d70 with a 24mm 2.8 ais and it was not

fun focusing it. Perhaps I don't have great eye sight (i need

glasses), I'm used to RF too much or perhaps it was a wide

angle... I would definitely *hate* to manual focus a critical shot

with a d70 wide open in dim light. Ever try focusing the kit lens

@ 18mm manually...It's a pain imo. Having said all that, you

should go to a local store with your manual lenses and try it for

yourself.

[brandon_mcghee]

You should check <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Bcdh&unified_p=1">this out</a> , a few users have modified and installed manual focusing screens on the D70 and are quite happy with it. I believe that metering is still retained but with a +.3 increase in exposure, which some people feel the D70 needs anyway.

[art_kramer]

its real easy, just flick the switch to MF, hold the shutter release down half way, focus until the see the dot in the view finder and your good to go. the focusing dot helps tell when the focus is good, sometimes its hard to tell without it. my old minolta had a split screen to line up while focusing, these new fangled cameras don't have that.

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>Unfortunately, I have heard that it is very hard to obtain decently sharp focus with MF

lenses on the D70 because of the viewfinder's size, brightness, and lack of focusing aides.

Is this true, or am I just misinformed?</I><P>You have been mis-informed. The focus

confirmation light does work and at least with the the three D70 bodies I've worked with

using AI-S lenses (105mm f/1.8 and 50mm f/1.8) there have been no focus problems. If

you

aren't working a dynamic situation you can use either a a hand held meter orthe

historgram on the camera's LCD to seset and judge exposure.

[erick_lamontagne]

The focus confirmation light works well but focusing directly on the screen would be nice. It does get frustrating sometimes. I use it with a 300/2.8 ais, sometimes with a TC200 and <a href=http://www.borealphoto.com/articles1/chouettelapone20042005.htm>shoot birds</a> with it so it's not impossible.

[greg s]

Erick, Nice owl photos! The bottom shot (owl on camera) is amazing. Never had such a willing subject. :)

[fourfa]

there's a factor that hasn't been mentioned yet - focus distance. At telephoto range at f2.8 or f4, depth of field is at least deep enough to take in the whole owl, there is good foreground/background seperation, and the target is larger than the focus brackets. Under these conditions it's easy to get good focus, either with AF or manually, and the rangefinder dot is useful.

 

Shooting at close range with my 85mm 1.8 wide open, depth of field is only millimeters, and at least with portraits there's a lot of competing facial contour around to lock on to. Put another way, if there's no clear target/background distinction, getting critical focus is difficult for me, and perceived results in the finder often don't match results on the computer screen. (just to be clear, it's not 'backfocus,' I've tested and the focus is dead on with a clear target)

 

Just beware that some focusing situations will be harder than others. If don't tend to get in the harder ones, great, you're all set. However for me, the D70 has been all about exploring lots of difficult situations that never would have worked for me on film, both because of the time lag and the cost of burning multiple rolls to do it. This has led to me appreciating the value of a good finder more than I anticipated when I bought the camera.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>Unfortunately, I have heard that it is very hard to

obtain decently sharp focus with MF lenses on the D70 because of

the viewfinder's size, brightness, and lack of focusing aides.

--Hank Garrett<br>

</em><br>

Its not impossible but a lot depends on the skill of the

photographer and the speed of the action. If you want to focus

anywhere on the screen in the manner used by photojournalist with

cameras like the F2, F3 and FM/FE family you will be disappointed.

The FE is among the best film Nikon SLR(s) for manual focus ease.

The D70 has the worst focus screen for manual focus ease of any

modern SLR that Ive tried.<br>

<br>

Here is a list of finders Ive tested and how they compare.

I use a standard eyesight chart with the big E at the

top. I used a distance of 20 feet and a light level of EV 4.1 to

4.4 at ISO 100 (I changed the bulb when it burned out). My test

lens was an AF 50/1.8 except as noted. I re-tested the F3, F5 and

F100 with a 50/1.8 AI with the same results. A minus sign means

some errors. Here is the list<br>

<br>

FM2n & FE2, 20/15<br>

<br>

F3 (DE-2), 20/20<br>

<br>

F5, 20/20-<br>

F3HP, 20/20-<br>

D2H, 20/20- (50/1.8 AI)<br>

<br>

D2H, 20/25 (35/2.0 AI)<br>

F100, 20/25<br>

<br>

N80, 20/40<br>

<br>

Your FE should rate the same or a little lower than the FM2n

& FE2 (perhaps 20/15-). The D70 can only be worse than the N80.

I have not had an opportunity to test the D70 but I have spend

some time with the D70 in stores.<br>

<br>

I used to say I could not use the green/green/green electronic

rangefinder display of the F100 with peripheral vision. I didnt

have to as the F100 is good enough for manual focus in the PJ

style. Once I knew that the D2H would use the same ER display as

the F100 I decided Id have to learn and did.<br>

<br>

I expected to find the D2H (and by extension) the D2X somewhat

more difficult to focus than the F100. I am pleasantly surprised

to report that the D2H viewfinder has really good bite and is as

easy to focus manually as the F5. Nikon rates finder

magnification with a 50mm lens focused to infinity and with the

standard 1 diopter setting of all Nikon viewfinders. To be

honest the normal lens for the DX formats is 35mm so

I tested the D2H with both. I recommend using the lessor rating

for the D2H (with 35/2.0 AI). The FM2n, FE2, FE and D2H have a

finder magnification of 0.86x, the F3 (DE-2) 0.80x, the F3HP (DE-3),

N80 and D70 0.75x, F100 0.70x. The F5 is reported by Nikon to be

0.75x and 0.7x, Im not sure.<br>

<br>

I do not cook the data. Yes this is partly subjective

but its as objective as I can make it. If I did cook the

data the F5, F3 and D2H would all be at the top with a score of

20/10. My eyesight is 20/15 corrected except that my glasses have

many fine scratches that cause pretty diffraction stars at night

so its dropped to 20/20. I shoot through my glasses as I

have an astigmatism. If I find the right window

through my glasses I still get a super clear view of the finder.

This is probably the area not abraded by dust between the rubber

eyeglass protectors of my cameras and the glasses lens.<br>

<br>

For an expenditure of just $23.50 you can buy a K2, E2 or B2

screen for your FE making it equal to the FM2n and FE2. Its

probably very close and better for super speed lenses (f/1.2 and

faster). The D70 can only be worse than the N80 due to the DX

format and 35mm normal lens. Again I have tried the D70 but I

have not had the opportunity to test it. I stand by my statements

and my chart above: the FM2n & FE2 are the best Nikons for

manual focus ease that Ive used and the N80 is the worst. I

made these tests and this chart for the benefit of those who can

not gain access to these cameras to judge for themselves.<br>

<br>

Again the more skilled the photographer the more they can extract

from a lessor camera. The D70s final image quality is not

in question. Its a great value. The problem with the D70 is

the multi-CAM900 AF module v. the multi-CAM1300 and now multi-CAM2000

and the impaired optical components of the viewfinder. You can

use the DW-4 and DW-31, 6x finders on a Nikon F3 or F5 and their

focus screen images have resolution and acutance to spare. If a

focus screen leaks unfocused light, if the finder optics are

plastic, probably optical acrylic with some uncoated surfaces you

face a challenge and there is a limit imposed. The N80 and

derivatives have a sealed module between the focus screen and the

prism or penta-mirror that presents four unnecessary air to

plastic surfaces and there is an LCD that covers the entire

finder image that provides the on demand grid. I have not seen

this device but this is what a camera repairman friend describes.

The red light to show the selected focus point is projected into

this module, into the void. This is a low tech reflection as

compared to the high tech projection onto and through the focus

screen of better Nikon cameras. You can remove the focus screen

from an F100 and press the shutter release and the red focus area

indicator is clear and bright. The D70 has a penta-mirror not a

pentaprism. This device can be misaligned.<br>

<br>

The question is can you put into zeros and ones the photograph

you envision. Can you lay it down on silicone? If you can fine.

If not its a poor bargain. If you shoot fast primes wide or

nearly wide open beware.<br>

<br>

My advice is grab a credit card with a 0% teaser. Buy a Nikon D2H

at the close out price (Id love to recommend a D2X) then

hunker down and eat rice and beans. Cut any luxury you can but do

not compromise as Lex Jenkins said in another thread where

it hurts. Make two payments a month so you dont loose

the teaser rate. Fool the bank and pay off the card in the 6 to 9

months offered.<br>

<br>

Im truly sorry if Ive stepped on anyones toes.

I just hate to see people drop one thousand bucks and then be

dissatisfied with their camera. This probably will not happen to

most but Ive noted a few who bought the D70 and later

expressed dissatisfaction.<br>

<br>

Again Im sorry if Ive stepped on anyones toes

but I stand by may statements. <br>

<br>

Best to all,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.<br>

<br>

Some recommend reading...<br>

<br>

<a href="http://www.naturfotograf.com/D2H_rev00.html"

target="_new"><u>Nikon D2H Digital Camera Reviewed<br>

by Bjorn Rorslett</u></a><br>

<br>

<a href="http://www.naturfotograf.com/D70_rev00.html"

target="_new"><u>Nikon D70 Digital Camera Reviewed:<br>

Mass Revolution, At A Price<br>

by Bjorn Rorslett</u></a><br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

Well, you can knock me down,<br>

Step in my face,<br>

Slander my name<br>

All over the place.<br>

<br>

Well do anything that you want to do, but uh-uh, <br>

Honey, lay off of them shoes<br>

But don't you step on my blue suede shoes.<br>

Well you can do anything<br>

but lay off of my blue suede shoes.<br>

<br>

--Carl Perkins as sung by Elvis<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

<strong>If you dont read anything else, read this<br>

</strong><br>

<em>Over the years I've learned a few things about writing

columns, especially online semi-interactive columns where people

write in and either vehemently complain or praise me for

revealing the truth as they see it. This feedback tends to take

the form of either "You're an idiot for thinking that"

or "Wow, I thought I was the only one thinking this way."

There are other sentiments between those extremes, </em><em><u>but

underlying it all is a sick need for universal conformity.</u></em><em>

J. C. Dvorak<br>

</em><br>

<strong>Here is the full text<br>

<br>

</strong><a

href="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1775944,00.asp"

target="_new"><strong><u>Conformism in the High-Tech Era<br>

by John C. Dvorak</u></strong></a><strong><br>

</strong><br>

---<br>

[cgarrett]

wow, thanks for the detailed responses. I will be using fast and medium speed primes

(a 28mm f/3.5 Nikkor, a 50mm f1.8 Series E, and a 135mm f2.8 Nikkor), so this may

prove to be my achilles heel. I am young and have good eyesight, so I will give it a try

(I haven't even set eyes on my camera yet so I don't want to make any hasty

judgements). If all else fails, I guess I can scour eBay and KEH for a decently wide 3rd

party AF zoom or maybe a Nikkor if I can find one in the $100-200 range, and any

suggestions would be helpful.

[ShunCheung]

Hank, it sounds like you have already bought that used D70 and are merely waiting for it to arrive, right? In that case why don't you wait until it arrives and then test it yourself? It really doesn't matter at all whether someone else can or cannot manually focus the D70 to their satisfaction, especially with some other lenses. The only thing that matters is whether you can manually focus those lenses you have on it.

 

Another issue is that your MF lenses without CPU are not going to meter on the D70. You need to use either an external meter or the histogram to adjust exposure. That is something you need to get used to.

[Jim_Tardio]

I use a very similar combination...a D70 and an FM3a, as well as a few other cameras.

<p>

Manually focusing your D70 will be more difficult than your FE, but it is certainly possible, for all types of photography. The D70 is in wide professional use. That's not to say the veiwfinder can't be improved upon...it can. It's the weakest part of the camera.

<p>

I do think you'll soon tire of using your non-cpu'd lenses. I know I've been spoiled by the newer AF-S lenses. The ability to auto-focus and then fine-tune manually with the AF-S lenses is wonderful. The only manual focus lenses I use now are the 45/2.8, 100/2.8 & the 75-150/3.5.

<p>

On another note, I test drove a D2X this week...wow, what a camera! Unfortunately, it's just too big and heavy for my needs. Hopefully Nikon will place some version of that finder in their next mid-range DSLR.

<p>

I'm sure you'll enjoy your D70.

[greg s]

"if I can find one in the $100-200 range, and any suggestions would be helpful"

 

Be aware of the AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D , a very popular lens for the reasonable price of $90 new

[aardvarko]

The 35/2 is also available used for around $200. A nice, nice little lens.

[ilkka_nissila]

The key here, as Shun pointed out, is that you need to test the camera and lenses yourself before you can say whether there will be problems. Often the image seems sharp in the viewfinder but the results are randomly off the mark, AF or MF. I get between 30% and 90% shots in focus with the D70, depending on subject matter (>95% on all my other bodies). I have only one manual focus lens and using it presents no unusual difficulty, it's a PC Nikkor.