4 by 5 developing, low volume

[miles_feigenbaum___dallas_]

Howdy All,

 

My daughter just learned to load the film packs in her High School

the other day and took some 4 by 5 shots using monorail last week.

They are just getting started with the 4 by 5, is tray processing

going to cut it or will they need something like one of the Jobo

tanks?

 

gracias amigos!

[User_503771]

Tray processing works great but with close attention to technique. If it is done sloppily the film can get scratched by corners of other films as it's all being "shuffled".

 

The best reference I've seen for this is Ansel Adams's "The Negative." The process is illustrated with photos.

 

There are also rectangular tanks sold that take 4x5 and are adjustable to some smaller sizes. These can be loaded in total darkness, then used in a lighted room, even when changing chemicals. They work well too but you don't get as much control over the process as you would with tray processing; it takes awhile to drain chemicals, etc. But they work out all right.

 

Come to think of it, until your daughter and her darkroom buddies are fully apprised of the chemicals involved and their effects, it might be better to have them use the tanks. In the past I've sloshed my un-gloved hands around in the trays, but I don't know if I'd recommend that to young people starting out, with their whole lives ahead of them. The chemicals can go into the body through the skin and remain there to possibly create future havoc.

 

So, some research on this subject is in order!

 

If they can develop good tray technique while wearing protective gloves, that would be great. But emphasize that gloves should be worn, and that even with tanks proper precautions should be observed -- including good ventilation of the darkroom!

 

Tell your daughter, good luck! and have fun!

[paulh]

Miles

 

Have a search for "taco" in this forum and on APUG.

 

I use a variation of this method to develop my 9x12cm negatives in my Gepe 120 tank. I can put two sheets in width ways, emulsion side in and they touch the tank only on the short edges of the film. This works fine for me; I'm using stand or semi-stand develpment with 1+100 or 1+200 Rodinal.

 

The real taco method (thanks Jay!) involves putting one or two rubber bands round the film (hence it looks like a taco) with the emulsion side in. In a double 120 tank you could probably get four sheets in.

 

With both methods, once the film is in the tank, everything else happens in daylight. I've not scratched a single negative so far, and I'm using Efke 25 (which has a reputation for being a little soft).

 

Paul

[jim_rhoades]

A lot of very good photographer's have tray developed over the years. In fact all of the greats. Now I guess I'm a spazz with trays and just butcher up the film. I use hangers and the old dip & dunk when I have a lot of film. BTZS tubes if I have 6 or less.

 

You can buy hangers and tanks dirt cheap at any used photo show. With a number of kids I would think that is the way to go.

[neal_wydra1]

Dear Miles,

 

Nothing like trying tray processing to get the full effect of large format.<g> I would suggest purchasing a box of powder free nitrile examination gloves though. While I don't consider b&w chemicals dangerous, there is no point in developing an allergy (or an aversion) to the materials.

[Troll]

Tray developing, by all means!

[shawn_kielty1]

A home made tube processor may be a good way to go -- made from PVC pipe and with a light stop in it. Processes one sheet at a time. They can each do their own that way.

<br><br>

<a href=http://shawnkielty.com/Gear/RotaryProcessor/index.htm>Homemade 4x5 Daylight Rotary Tube Processor</a>

<br><br>

shawn

[bradley_artigue2]

I own the HP Combitank and the Jobo 4x5. The $60 for the HP was a waste, it leaks from the lid and isn't tall enough for the film holder plus the top retainer.

 

The Jobo tank is great, easy to load and use and doesn't leak. All my tanks (120/35 and 4x5) are Jobo now and I couldn't be happier.

[streetlevel]

Tray processing is a good thing to learn, but annoying.

 

the BTZS tubes are great... fairly inexpensive and effective for small quantities... and great

for multiple development times/zone processing.

 

Jobo's are the bees knees... but not cheap.

[conrad_hoffman]

When you're learning, one sheet at the time is best. That makes tray processing really easy.

[richard baznik]

Less than six sheets, tray processing. More than six, my trusty Yankee 4x5 tank. Note that the tank doesn't totally eliminate contact with chemicals, however, since emptying the tank inevitably leads to solution coming out of every possible opening while you're holding it in an inverted position with your hands. Thus gloves are still a good idea.

[brian_ellis16]

Trays require massive amounts of chemistry compared to the BTZS tubes, which require only an ounce of developer per sheet with D76 1-1. I process 6 sheets at a time with the tubes but if it was important to do more I figure I could do at least twelve at a time. While the tubes are fairly expensive when purchased new from The View Camera Store, used ones appear on e bay fairly often or, better yet, it's relatively easy to construct your own with instructions from the back of the book "Beyond the Zone System" by Phil Davis or probably also available on the net somewhere. Trays are a major PITA unless your daughter enjoys standing in total darkness for ten or fifteen minutes shuffling the film and inhaling chemical fumes. Jobo is nice but very expensive compared to tubes, trays, and tanks, inconvenient when negatives are being processed for different times, and take up a lot of space.

[mskovacs]

I've also been using the Taco for my Efke PL100 9x12 sheets. On a couple of negatives, I can actually see a mark on the rubber band. How this could happen with the rubber band on the back, I have no idea. Its not antihalation coating. This only happens with a relatively thick (4mm) band I was using. Using thin bands, or thin hair elastics seems to work OK.

 

The most I've managed so far is three Tacos in my Patterson 2x35mm tank.

 

I'm also considering making a rollfilm tank with a light trap from PVC pipe and rubber sheet. I found a few designs poking around the internet.

[miles_feigenbaum___dallas_]

Gracias amigos! Lots of info here. I think she has that class today and will find out if they have a tank or what...

 

man, its really exciting for them to use 4 by 5...

[keithostertag]

I did tray processing in the past and enjoyed it, but I found that I tended to keep my hands in the trays too long which would raise the temperature of the developer significantly! Also, I don't like wearing gloves so I was always having chemistry on my hands...

 

I also used a Unicolor drum roller, which you can find cheap used, and one of their 8x10 print drums for doing two 4x5's or two 5x7's at a time. These units reverse rotation direction every few seconds. I highly recommend this! Even and constant agitation, no chemistry gets on your hands, and once you load the film the entire process is done in daylight. I also could do B&W reversal process this way- wouldn't want to do that with tray processing because of the more caustic chemistry involved. Of course, you could also do your black and white prints with this process- takes considerably less room than tray processing. Of course, you need to establsh a procedure and stay consistent with it for best results. Great to hear young people doing sheet film!