What's the widest wide angle that I can put on my Horseman?

[jorge_jimenez1]

I recently bought a 6x9 back for my Horseman. I have always shot the Pro 65 F7

lens. Long ago I had a 58mm Grandagon off an Graflex XL that was better than

the 65 (wider and faster) Does anyone have any experience with the 47 Super

Angulon on a Horseman 985 or VHR? What is the infinity focus distance for that

lens? Will it focus with the resessed board the 65 Topcon comes in?

[paul.droluk]

I'm afraid I can't answer your specific questions, however I happen to have a Schneider 58XL

that is mounted on a Horseman recessed board for the Horseman VH/VHR cameras. All is

perfect with this lens, and I am of a mind to sell it. Drop me a line if this would be of interest.

[jean-louis llech]

Jorge,<br>

The flange focal distances for 47mm Super-Angulons :<br>

- 5.6/47 XL : 59.1 mm.<br>

- 5.6/47 non-XL : 52.2 mm<br>

- 8/47 : 50.9mm<br>

The SA 47 XL has an image circle of 110 mm at f/5.6 and 166mm at f/22.<br>

[howard_slavitt2]

With a recessed board like that for the 65mm board, the widest lens you can use while still having the lens on the front rail is either the 58mm SuperAngulon XL (like Paul's, which I also used when I had the camera), or a 55mm Grandagon. I'm not sure if the latest 55mm Grandagon will work, but I think it will. I also had a recessed board with a 65mm Grandagon mounted into it. The 65mm Grandagon is a fabulous lens, and far surpassed my multicoated version of the 65mm Horseman that I had. If I were to go down the route you're in, I would either (a) buy Paul's lens from him, or (b) try to see if I could get the 55mm Grandagon mounted in a recessed board, though I doubt it will work in the board that the 65mm Horseman is in; Paul's is probably mounted in an aftermarket board, like the two I had, that are no longer available. . . The real answer, if you're interested in wides, is to buy an Ebony, but I'm sure you didn't want to hear that. . . The other answer is to sell it all and buy a Canon full frame digital like I did, and then get some "alternate" wides like the Olympus 18mm f3.5 or Leica 19mm, but I'm sure you didn't want to hear either. . . :) One thing I can tell you that the Horseman VH used with the Horseman 65mm lens (again, I had an excellent, multi-coated copy of this lens) gives no better resolution and probably worse than a Canon 5D with a good 28mm fixed focal length lens.

[jorge_jimenez1]

Thanks Jean-Louis. The minimum distance available for the Horseman with the resessed board the 65 Topcon is mounted on is right at 50 mm. So it seems any of these lenses (if the mount on a size 0 shutter) can be used on the Horseman.

[howard_slavitt2]

Jorge: not true based on my experience and not true based on the manufacturer specs. I don't know how you're measuring 50mm, but I think the measurement is off. The Horseman recessed board, as I recall, gives you only about 7-8mm extra. That's the same I got with the aftermarket recessed board I was using too. My recollection is that it measured out based on specs to use the Grandagon 55mm, but just barely. Using it with the 58mm SuperAngulon XL worked well but that was clsoe to the limit. I wouldn't spent money on anything wider than the Grandagon 55mm, and I think even with it, you should calculated in a 20% chance, at a minimum, that it's not going to work to your satisfaction.

[howard_slavitt2]

The other problem with the Horseman/Topcon recessed board is that it was made to work with a lens mounted in a Seiko shutter. It's not configured to work with the Copal shutters. So I guess you could buy another lens and try to mount it in the Seiko shutter and then mount it into the board, but I wouldn't bet on it working. Even as between the Grandagon and Schneiders both mounted in Copal 0 shutters, my recollection is that the Grandagons worked better in the aftermarket recessed board that was made for Copal 0 shutters. You're working with very little tolerance here. . . Although I sold my Horseman a year ago, and I had the lens mounted in the aftermarket boards quite awhile ago (about 3-4 years ago), I remember agonizing over these specifications and my decision quite a bit. Good luck.

[jean-louis llech]

Jorge,<br>

Dont' forget that Horseman's lensboards are smaller than Linhof's.<br>

I fear that setting aperture and speed on a 80 x 80 mm recessed lensboard will be more difficult than with a Linhof 96 x 99 mm lensboard.<br>

I can already tell you that even with 96 x 99 mm recessed lensboards, aperture and speed setting is not so easy.<br>

[chenault_woodford]

I recently bought a used, unmounted Super Angulon 47mm to use on my Horseman 6x9. Trying it in a cardboard mount (just for testing), it clearly wants a recessed board. I have not been able to find such - new or used. I am well aware of the finger access problem with a recess in a small board but, since I already have the lens I'd like to find some way to use it. I guess I could make something out of wood but I'd rather not do that. Any suggestions?

[jorge_jimenez1]

If I measure with the lens board at the stop for the 65 Topcon, I get 75 mm, but I can get a solid grip on the rail at 60 mm and the resessed board gives you 7-8 mm more. I have used Horseman for over 20 years, I didn't just buy one yesterday. I know the Grandagon 58 Graflex works because I have had that lens. I beleive that based on the flange distances Jean listed, any of those lenses can fil. As far as the size of the board, The board can handle a lens with a rear element diameter of 60mm and smaller.

So here is a new question: Can I screw off the front and rear elements of the Topcon and screw in the front and rear elements of any size 0 shutter fitting lens??? Why not? Thread and diameter is the same, Isn't it?