Finding an LTM Canon 85/1.9 in Burma

[owen w.]

Finding an LTM Canon 85/1.9 in Burma

<p>

I've just returned from a couple weeks in Yangon, Myanmar/Burma,

including the New Year Water Festival. As usual, e-mail connections

are severely restricted. Photo.net is now accessible, but the copper

wires mean that no connection lasts more than a couple minutes.

Posting any response is blocked. Some searching is also restricted,

even if you can maintain a connection.

<p>

Anyway, I went cruising the old photo shops in downtown Yangon. I

found a Canon LTM 85/1.9 that was in remarkably good condition. I

went to a (gov't monitored) Internet cafe, and tried to get to this

forum to find what I could about this lens. I've learned almost

everything I know about lenses I don't own from the LF, so I say thank

you for the idea to even go looking for something like this. I found

Sheldon Hambrick's nice photos with such a lens, but little technical

information.

<p>

There are a few oddities, some which I discover may be normal, and

some maybe not. I'd never seen one of these before. I found a few

references to an 85/1.8, but this was the 85/1.9. The aperture ring

moves with the focus ring. One cannot change an aperture setting

without float/moving the focal ring. (You can, but certainly not in a

practical sense.) Second, the lens lines up (on the body) past where

it ought to, either on a Canon LTM body or on my 9cm Leica LTM-M

adapter. In other words, the focus scale, which should center at the

top, twists right on past center to about 2 o'clock.

<p>

I stood out on the street and shot a quick roll of cheap 24-shot film

through the lens on an M6. Local photo lab returned photos that were

MUCH sharper than I expected. When I have the film scanned (while

processing other films here in Thailand), I'll post an example of wide

open.

<p>

I decided against buying it, as: 1) it weighs a ton. 2) I have the

TE90/2.8 and the (also heavy) 90/2 ASPH. 3) I was looking for a

softer portrait lens for the lovely women in my family who do not

appreciate the evidence presented by the sharp Leica (particularly the

ASPH) lenses. Why buy another heavy lens that doesn't seem to give me

anything I don't already have?

<p>

It was the Buddhist New Year (Water Festival), so the country shut

down for a 3-day national wet T-shirt contest.

<P>

As we stayed through New Year Day (17 April, this year) to the 18th, I

broke down and ran back to buy it before we left. US$70. A New Year toy.

<p>

This is where the story begins. I'd shot a roll and it focused fine.

But, as I got back to family and was packing, I decided to finish off

the film in my camera. I put on the adapter and popped it onto an

M6ttl and, surprisingly, the rangefinder focus/connection was way off.

I had a couple hours that I would have spent with family, but I

jumped in a battered old cab and went back down to the shops.

<p>

I show the shop guy who grabs lens and beckons me to follow, and

around into a den of battered wooden shop-houses we went to find a guy

perched on a rather barren bench with a pedestal table. A small tray

of tweezers and screwdrivers is all he has. He took the lens and,

after examining it attached on my M6, proceeded to dismantle it.

(I'll admit that I tried, but my eyeglass screwdrivers were not up to

the task.) I was amazed at his rough dexterity. Making no particular

concessions, he extracted 6 tiny screws and never missed a move. The

range finder mount was off. It appears the owner was trying to deal

with the focal-scale lineup issue and messed it up.

<p>

So, within about 20 minutes, it was back together and the focus lines

up. I finished up my last roll with a couple wide-open shots that

haven't gone into the lab yet, but I guess I have an inexpensive new

toy, albeit a very heavy one.

<p>

The depth of field indicators still line up at about 2 o'clock, but I

guess that's just part of it. The bench man just shrugged when I asked.

<p>

In the meantime, if anyone could please offer any technical or

personal comments on this lens, and, roughly, the value of such a lens

(generically speaking). The glass on this one is very clean, although

I detect a tiny corona of fuzz around the outer edge of an inner

element. The blades are clean, although the aperture ring is a little

tight to turn. I wonder if it is worth the cost of the Bangkok CLA,

on top of the $70.

<p>

The lens is marked Canon Camera Co. Japan No. 6930X (Is there some

reason for this protocol of never actually listing the last #?).

Anyway, would someone know the rough year of production?

<p>

Hope the story was entertaining. Many thanks. Owen

[anders_gelbheit]

I know nothing about this lens whatsoever, but I have to tell you I really enjoyed your story. A nice piece of travel writing. The adventure alone was clearly worth the $70. : )

[john_shriver]

It is completely normal for the infinity mark to be at 2 O'clock on LTM lenses. Both Canon and Leica. I suppose so you can see it with a long pointy finder in the accessory shoe?

 

Optically, it's a copy of the pre-war Zeiss lens of the same length and speed. The primary improvement in the 85/1.9 over the 85/2.0 is that they got the aperture ring turning in the right direction, they copied Zeiss' direction on the 85/2.0.

 

Fine price for the lens, it's about $120 to $150 in the US.

 

If you find the Canon 100/3.5, that's a travel lens to cherish. Small, light, sharp.

 

As for hiding the serial number, it's to protect oneself in case someone stole the lens in the past.

[stephen_w.]

"It is completely normal for the infinity mark to be at 2 O'clock on LTM lenses. Both Canon and Leica. I suppose so you can see it with a long pointy finder in the accessory shoe?"

 

My former Canon lens went past Top Dead Center (TDC), normal. However, my 35/2.8 LTM Summaron lines up, TDC. What pointy finder will permit one to see the scales? Even with my CV 12mm finder, I cannot see the scales.

 

"As for hiding the serial number, it's to protect oneself in case someone stole the lens in the past."

 

His lens is marked "engraved" that way.

[gerald_widen]

I primarily use Canon LSM lenses on my M2. (35/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.9) and all of them have the focusing line up at approximately the 2 O'Clock position. BTW you got a bargain on that 85. It is a nice well built lens although a little heavy. Possibly since they are worth so much more you could sell one of your Leica 90's and buy something else.

[owen w.]

Thanks for all the notes and thoughts. It's fun to learn about it. I hadn't thought about the viewfinder "clearance" while looking down. Makes sense to me.

<p>

Of course, the fun is in the discovery. Burma/Myanmar has been poor for a very long time, and environmental conditions are hard on material possessions. The treasures left behind from the gloriously wealthy and heady days of the 1950's have long ago been scavenged or have simply rotted. In over a decade, I've found only about a dozen Leicas, including a bunch of scientific M's and the connections for microscopes, etc., but none in very good condition. Actually, nearly all were in very grim condition.

<p>

The shops have tons of old View Cameras. Most of the lenses were low-end Asian knock-offs, with the few exceptions generally fogged into opacity. Lots of boxes and monster wooden tripods. Lots of old Yashica-cords, low end Rollicords, and other TLR detris - again, rarely anything but objects of pity. In the SLRs, there are occasional little gems. Same shop had a Pentax Spotmatic with an early Super-Takamaur 50/1.4 that was pristine clean. I looked wistfully, but couldn't even justify asking the price. I'm sure it was very reasonable. Otherwise, lots of low-end Chinese cameras, some Russian carcasses, and lots of the not-quite-latest digital low-end consumer toys -- in the two or three shops catering to the (comparatively) well-heeled.

<p>

Back among the shophouses were numbers of young guys carefully repairing really cheap P&S film cameras. I saw dozens of carcasses that were being carefully retrofitted that no one on this Forum would find worthy of using new. I mean really cheap low-end plastic P&S bodies in pieces being carefully poked with soldering irons and tweezers.

<p>

So, finding this Canon came as a surprise. The VT deluxe it was attached to was not worth salvage, and the 50/1.2 that had apparently long been attached to the body was also in very sad condition. I think the 85 must have had lucky storage and little use, and the shop had put it on to show in his case. Nice guy that I've stopped to chat to, from time to time, over the years. My first actual purchase of either lens or body in the country in all these years.

<p>

NOW, Can anyone tell me, roughly, the year of production of this baby? (Canon 85/1.9 Serial No. 6930X.)

<p>

Thanks for the responses and chats.

<p>

Owen

[peter_evans4]

<p>You'll find some information on Canon lenses <a href="http://canonrangefinder.servehttp.com:8880/canonrangefinder/index.php?page=lenses">here</a>. As for the value of the lens, decide for yourself. If you like the results it gives and don't find it too heavy to carry around, it's valuable.</p>

[owen w.]

Peter,

 

Thank you for that link. It tells me that it was probably made in mid-1958. Utterly cool. It is also a really handsome lens. The chrome shines almost as new. The lens cap is buffed a bit, but who cares? It's a cool silver metal Canon and it still fits snugly.

<p>

Of course, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. I will certainly play with it. My photography is mostly for my personal pleasure. The first test roll was almost "too good" for what I was hoping. Ah, gee. Still, the weight is an issue. I still carry the same style Tenba msgr camera bag I've carried 25 years. But, when I swapped the pair of CLE's with small Leica glass for a pair of M's with newer Leica glass, the weight of that same bag simply doubled. I love the 90/2 ASPH, but it gets left behind more often than not, simply because of weight. I'm take this one on a trip to Southern Thailand in a couple days, but I'd ordinarily choose the TE90, simply because of weight. Plus, I've been shooting wider lenses in recent years. The point was nothing more than the story, a neat old lens that I'll play with -- and still keep seeking to learn about it's design and history, just 'cause that's fun, too.

<p>

Thanks, again, for the help and comments.

[owen w.]

Better late than never. A few photos from the Canon 85/1.9. The first is taken outside the shop on the streets of Yangon in mid-day light. The film is cheap consumer 24 exposure, developed in the shop next door to the camera shop.<div></div>

[owen w.]

Indoor shot. Subject is leader of Deaf Thai community conducting a meeting with local outreach workers in NST (Southern Thailand).<div></div>

[owen w.]

Okay, not a very interesting photo, but the OOF areas are on display. Indoor, neon lighting. The young man on the right is a bright young graduate of the first HS class in the NST (Southern Thailand) School for the Deaf. The other fellow is a Ministry of Education official. The meeting, being conducted in Thai Sign Language, is being video-taped.<div></div>

[owen w.]

Final shot. Slightly cropped off the sides.<div></div>